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Old 02-15-2013, 08:31 PM   #16
nachtflug
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Originally Posted by Maggot12 View Post
but the convience of just stopping on the way home from work and picking up 4-6 bags of pellets, like you'd stop and get milk is hard to beat.
ain't it the truth. pellet stoves are the best thing since sliced bread.
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Old 02-15-2013, 08:32 PM   #17
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For those of you with pellet stoves: If there was a good burning pellet that was "green" because it was made with easily renewable natural product and contained 30% post-consumer (recycled) product, would you spend a little more money on them?
jesus christ leave it alone don't f up a good thing.
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Old 02-16-2013, 04:23 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Bokrijder View Post
OP -- A bit vague on just exactly what you're trying to accomplish here.

1. Convert product to pellets with a possible market value ?
2. Utilize the material in house with an energy recovery goal ?
3. Simply to convert the material to some useful form which would qualify as green recovery ?

Thanks,

Bokrijder
Mainly numbers 1 and 3. I tried to avoid the longer story, but since I'm hitting up the brain trust, here you go:

For 12 years we've had a non-profit recycling center that does most household goods and metals. The metals part of the operation did really well and paid for the money-loosing (most of the time) household part of the operation. Almost two years ago a commercial enterprise moved into the area and, seeing the writing on the wall (they were able to offer better prices for metal than we could and we would have died a slow death), we sold the operation to the commercial enterprise and created a new non-profit with the proceeds of the sale.

The commercial enterprise is all about making money and I have no problem with that, but they are considering dropping the household part of the operation as it doesn't turn a profit. Our non-profit has been looking for a "green stream" related project to invest the funds. The idea of pellet manufacturing that uses the cardboard and paper waste came up and we're just starting the research into it. Is it a good idea? Dunno.

Anybody have other ideas? I'm all ears. One thing to keep in mind: a paper mill type operation is out as it is too water demanding for our area.

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jesus christ leave it alone don't f up a good thing.
Good thing nobody said that about the 10hp motorcycle with skinny tires of a century ago. Think outside the box and thanks for your "help."
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listen mister, we didnt evolve porcelin shitters just so we could squat to take a shit, like monkeys.
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Old 02-16-2013, 05:36 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by josjor View Post
Mainly numbers 1 and 3. I tried to avoid the longer story, but since I'm hitting up the brain trust, here you go:

For 12 years we've had a non-profit recycling center that does most household goods and metals. The metals part of the operation did really well and paid for the money-loosing (most of the time) household part of the operation. Almost two years ago a commercial enterprise moved into the area and, seeing the writing on the wall (they were able to offer better prices for metal than we could and we would have died a slow death), we sold the operation to the commercial enterprise and created a new non-profit with the proceeds of the sale.

The commercial enterprise is all about making money and I have no problem with that, but they are considering dropping the household part of the operation as it doesn't turn a profit. Our non-profit has been looking for a "green stream" related project to invest the funds. The idea of pellet manufacturing that uses the cardboard and paper waste came up and we're just starting the research into it. Is it a good idea? Dunno.

Anybody have other ideas? I'm all ears. One thing to keep in mind: a paper mill type operation is out as it is too water demanding for our area.



Good thing nobody said that about the 10hp motorcycle with skinny tires of a century ago. Think outside the box and thanks for your "help."

I'm not a more government type of guy, but does your locale have a solid waste management program which includes recycling ? So many variables here. Ultimately green usage is desired, but first goal could be preventing cherry picking and preventing the remainder from simply being dumped over the bank. With that solved, you'd have some breathing room in your quest for a green solution.
If a pellet manufacture could establish a viable procedure for, let's say, clean first run cardboard or clean news print, I doubt a mixed stream of cardboard, newsprint, magazines, Chinese packing, pizza boxes, etc. would fit the bill. That could put the onus on you to deliver a raw product meeting a particular specification.
Any wiggle room in that 30% incinerator regulation -- controlled research project maybe ?
Shredded for animal/bird bedding or litter - resultant mix composted ?

Coastal ports have an abundance of empty containers which need to go back - they fill these containers and send the shite back.

And finally, yes pellet stoves work quite well !!

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Old 02-16-2013, 06:38 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Bokrijder View Post
I'm not a more government type of guy, but does your locale have a solid waste management program which includes recycling ? So many variables here. Ultimately green usage is desired, but first goal could be preventing cherry picking and preventing the remainder from simply being dumped over the bank. With that solved, you'd have some breathing room in your quest for a green solution.
I'm not sure what you're getting at here, but if you're asking if there is a government recycling center around here, the answer is no. It's one of the reasons that we started the center all those years ago: the city/county couldn't afford or want to.

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Originally Posted by Bokrijder View Post
If a pellet manufacture could establish a viable procedure for, let's say, clean first run cardboard or clean news print, I doubt a mixed stream of cardboard, newsprint, magazines, Chinese packing, pizza boxes, etc. would fit the bill. That could put the onus on you to deliver a raw product meeting a particular specification.
I'm thinking that due to the nasty chemicals and whatnot used in glossy magazines and junk mail, we'd have to keep to just cardboard, newsprint, and possibly office paper. We're actually already collecting the stuff in those sorted categories.
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Any wiggle room in that 30% incinerator regulation -- controlled research project maybe ?
There might be. The 30% was a figure I read from a city that was using that much in cardboard pellets in conjunction with coal for a small electric generator they ran to supplement power in the city owned buildings. The article mentioned that they had to keep below that threshold to avoid being categorized as an incinerator. It may be different for home use, but the regs may apply to manufacturers supplying home use products. Don't know.
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Shredded for animal/bird bedding or litter - resultant mix composted ?
There's a company or two doing this with pine pellets. I don't know how well it would work with cardboard.

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Coastal ports have an abundance of empty containers which need to go back - they fill these containers and send the shite back.

Bokrijder
And that's where we've been selling it previously. The problem with us is location. We have to deliver the cardboard bales 210 miles to get it to the nearest distributor that supplies the container ships..........which are located about 1,500 miles away.
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listen mister, we didnt evolve porcelin shitters just so we could squat to take a shit, like monkeys.
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Old 02-16-2013, 08:23 AM   #21
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Jos,

Hmm - I'd think the shredded product, animal or poultry waste with resultant compost might be worthy of thought. The shredded product has found some use in the dairy industry in our area. I believe the printing industry ink standards has been tightened to the point ink toxicity concerns have been greatly reduced. Pelletized bedding products are finding a home in the horse world.

One marketing advantage for such a product would be some sort of green certification. One issue confronting traditional commercial mulch and compost producers has been the contamination of their traditional raw products with lingering trace herbicides. Mulch or compost which kills or stunts landscaping isn't in much demand, 'course there is much finger pointing going on.

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Old 02-16-2013, 09:06 AM   #22
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It's a long story and I won't bore you all with the details unless you really want them. I'm not so interested in the stoves themselves, but more in the pellets.

For those of you with pellet stoves: If there was a good burning pellet that was "green" because it was made with easily renewable natural product and contained 30% post-consumer (recycled) product, would you spend a little more money on them?

Short version: This is just some preliminary info I'm gathering on behalf of a non-profit group that I serve as a board member for. We've been able to stay in the green (pun intended) because we do metals recycling, but the cardboard and paper products are big money losers for us. The idea of using that as part of a wood pellet product came to mind. Thing is, we still have to make it pay for itself.

BTW, the reason for the "30% post consumer" limit is that, from some real quick reading, if you burn more than 30% post consumer you could end up being classified as an incinerator by the EPA nazis. I need to check more into that, as well as whether higher concentrations would produce the BTU's.
Yes I have a Pellet Stove and NO I would not pay any extra for a "Green" pellet. Here in Colorado you can get some made from dead trees that were killed by the pine beetle infestation and I believe they are the same or cheaper than "regular" pellets.

Personally I think the biggest nonGreen aspect of burning wood pellets is you're wasting so much plastic. Those plastic bags are think and I go through a bag a day and that adds up to a lot of unrecyclable plastic.
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Old 02-16-2013, 09:25 AM   #23
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Yes I have a Pellet Stove and NO I would not pay any extra for a "Green" pellet. Here in Colorado you can get some made from dead trees that were killed by the pine beetle infestation and I believe they are the same or cheaper than "regular" pellets.

Personally I think the biggest nonGreen aspect of burning wood pellets is you're wasting so much plastic. Those plastic bags are think and I go through a bag a day and that adds up to a lot of unrecyclable plastic.
You're actually just up the road from me........well, a couple hundred miles or so.............and I'm aware of the surplus of pine beetle waste trees. It certainly made that pellet guys supply side a lot cheaper. Good for pellet users, bad for the scenery. I hope they can come up with a good way to control those little six-legged terrors.

I think the bag material is an issue, but you'd have to find a recyclable bag material that is impervious to moisture. Don't know if there is such a critter.
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listen mister, we didnt evolve porcelin shitters just so we could squat to take a shit, like monkeys.
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Old 02-16-2013, 10:16 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Dukeryder View Post
Yes I have a Pellet Stove and NO I would not pay any extra for a "Green" pellet. Here in Colorado you can get some made from dead trees that were killed by the pine beetle infestation and I believe they are the same or cheaper than "regular" pellets.

Personally I think the biggest nonGreen aspect of burning wood pellets is you're wasting so much plastic. Those plastic bags are think and I go through a bag a day and that adds up to a lot of unrecyclable plastic.

You're right "Green" certification on a burnable pellet makes no sense.

I picked up a couple bags of horse stall pellets to try them for effectiveness with housed pigeons, birds used for dog training. They work quite well, in fact very well. The pellets quickly break down into a duff like material, waste is added - good --- off to compost ??????? not sure.

Stall, pen, coop waste is a valuable commodity in Ag business, but not if it is contaminated.
So maybe a business opportunity if your product can be modified appropriately.

1. Pelletized -- your product grows in volume after being placed, that's very good.
2. Certification for no residual herbicide presence. These residuals touch two fronts of public concern - harming existing plants if applied as a part of mulch and carcinogenic potentials through direct contact. Topic is likely to linger for years as major chemical companies -- well, you see where this is going.
3. Green

Speaking of mulch contamination - I chuckle when I see a bunch of multi flora rose debris in the local organic waste pile. Stuff waiting to be run thru the grinder and given away as mulch - free mulch no less.

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Old 02-17-2013, 08:17 AM   #25
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Is there a way to use pellets in a regular wood stove? I've not seen the inner workings of a pellet stove.
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Old 02-17-2013, 08:24 AM   #26
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I guess they can!

http://coastaljournal.com/website/in...lity&Itemid=44

Anyone doing something like this?
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Old 02-17-2013, 09:40 AM   #27
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Is there a way to use pellets in a regular wood stove? I've not seen the inner workings of a pellet stove.
http://ecobrick.net/

You could try these. They're just giant pellets that go in a regular stove but with the convenience of pellets.
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Old 02-17-2013, 10:19 AM   #28
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I guess they can!

http://coastaljournal.com/website/in...lity&Itemid=44

Anyone doing something like this?
Interesting idea. I like hardwood in the wood stove myself, but if you can get it to work for you, could be nice.

Pellet stoves are darn convenient.
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Old 02-17-2013, 01:15 PM   #29
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I just grabbed 5 bags for about $20 at the local H-depot. Never been that easy to deal with logs! I just dropped some in with a wood load. Heck, this might just be a great way to stretch the wood if not convert to it exclusively. I wish I had investigated these earlier.

I'll let ya know how my stove is burning them later. The biggest complaint with it has been excessive temps. The windows are opened all night upstairs. If these burn slower and I can get less heat with the same or a longer burn it just might be the best option.

Fingers crossed and I'll check out those bigger pellets and a basket too.
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Old 02-17-2013, 02:32 PM   #30
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The thought of pellets without buying a pellet stove sounds good to me, can't wait to try it when this shift is over. The baskets seem kinda steep for what they are so I'm gonna try the KLR version of a basket since I already have one at home.
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