ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > The perfect line and other riding myths
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-19-2013, 09:08 AM   #1
Keithert OP
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jan 2013
Oddometer: 674
Dirt training

I've been riding on the street for 22 years and have been an MSF instructor in the past. I think I know how to ride on the street pretty well. But I'm new to riding offroad. I'm considering taking the MSF dirt bike school in the spring. What are some other good ways to learn to ride offroad? The area I'll be riding is ATV two tracks through the woods and gravel roads mostly.

On the street I have a good idea of how much traction there is in a curve and how far the bike can be leaned. On the grass or gravel though I have no idea. How do these differ from the street? I've seen videos of class exercices riding the figure 8 on grass and they look just like the street classes exercises. But I wouldn't think grass would have as much traction as pavement.
Keithert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2013, 09:57 AM   #2
scottrnelson
Team Orange
 
scottrnelson's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: Folsom, CA
Oddometer: 1,404
Some of us just went out and rode in the dirt and figured it out. Reading about how to ride in the dirt becomes more meaningful after you've tried things and noticed something that might be difficult to do. It's not like you'll get run over by a truck if you make a mistake in the dirt, you just dump the bike, pick it up, and keep riding. You occasionally have to replace broken levers, but that's part of the learning experience.

A lot of the enjoyment I've received from riding in the dirt was learning how to handle steep hills, sand, whoops, water crossings, and other challenging things. But I learned to ride on the street without official training as well and managed to survive. I don't think the MSF had been invented yet when I started riding.

__________________
__Scott R. Nelson, 2008 KTM 990 Adventure, 2001 Honda XR650L, Folsom, CA
scottrnelson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2013, 10:11 AM   #3
acesandeights
Asperger
 
acesandeights's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: So. Oregon
Oddometer: 3,514
I had ridden dirt early on and then street. I thought I knew a lot about riding (thought I was pretty good) until I took a basic (street) rider class a couple years ago and it was eye-opening, even after decades of riding. It wasn't that it taught me everything there was to know about riding, but there were a couple of "aha!" moments where some things that I think held me back from being a better rider just clicked during the instruction. So, what I'm getting at is you should probably ride a lot of dirt, with dirt riders if you know some, AND taking a basic dirt class is probably a great way to learn some things you may or may not learn otherwise. You may learn a couple of small things that make a big difference in the learning curve.
__________________
http://breakingbooks.wordpress.com
http://www.kenmarshallmetalworks.com/
I may not be Rainman, but I'm not stupid eighter. Like Bartek on a taco.

I'll die with this hammer in my hand.
acesandeights is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2013, 10:46 AM   #4
crofrog
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Location: Annapolis Maryland
Oddometer: 1,455
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keithert View Post
I've been riding on the street for 22 years and have been an MSF instructor in the past. I think I know how to ride on the street pretty well. But I'm new to riding offroad. I'm considering taking the MSF dirt bike school in the spring. What are some other good ways to learn to ride offroad? The area I'll be riding is ATV two tracks through the woods and gravel roads mostly.

On the street I have a good idea of how much traction there is in a curve and how far the bike can be leaned. On the grass or gravel though I have no idea. How do these differ from the street? I've seen videos of class exercices riding the figure 8 on grass and they look just like the street classes exercises. But I wouldn't think grass would have as much traction as pavement.
The wheels slide the same on pavement as they do in the dirt it just happens sooner. So why not just keep working up until you find the limits of traction...
crofrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2013, 10:54 AM   #5
Keithert OP
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jan 2013
Oddometer: 674
Quote:
Originally Posted by crofrog View Post
The wheels slide the same on pavement as they do in the dirt it just happens sooner. So why not just keep working up until you find the limits of traction...
Are you saying that traction is lost sooner on pavement than in the dirt? Or the opposite? I would think that it would be lost sooner on dirt.
Keithert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2013, 10:55 AM   #6
crofrog
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Location: Annapolis Maryland
Oddometer: 1,455
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keithert View Post
Are you saying that traction is lost sooner on pavement than in the dirt? Or the opposite? I would think that it would be lost sooner on dirt.
Yes, you loose traction at lower force levels on the dirt. The act of managing the slide is the same on pavement or dirt.
crofrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2013, 11:13 AM   #7
Trl Rdr
Big Red Bird
 
Trl Rdr's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Lincoln, NE - The Tax me state
Oddometer: 2,036
Not all dirt is created equal!

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2
__________________
2 XR650r(s) 2001 & 2002 Plated
GL18HPM9 Titanium (Gold Wing)
CRF230F for the tight shit!
Baja Mexico Trail Ride Report
Big Bend Ranch Drive and Ride Report
Trl Rdr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2013, 11:17 AM   #8
PMC
riding rider
 
PMC's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Twin Cities MN
Oddometer: 795
It's easier to learn on a small and light bike. The bigger the bike and more top heavy the bike the harder it is to learn on.
If your ATV trails are anything like ours in MN and WI practice in sand and then more sand and then a little more deep sand.
PMC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2013, 11:58 AM   #9
eatpasta
Lawnmower Target
 
eatpasta's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Location: Santa Barbara, Ca
Oddometer: 10,076
find a local race series and a small bike and enter. Doesnt matter what you ride, you will be astonished how much you will learn and how quickly. The best way to get better at anything is to surround yourself with people with talent.
You dont have to go faster than your comfort zone, but you will notice your comfort zone start to shift....

I highly recommend it. I was transformed as a rider.
__________________
We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time.
T. S. Eliot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burnszilla
I was SO high, I could have hunted duck with a rake
Quote:
Originally Posted by VxZeroKnots View Post
MX stuff isn't my cup of tea, but falling down the side of a mountain is
eatpasta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2013, 12:44 PM   #10
NJ-Brett
Brett
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: Southern New Jersey
Oddometer: 6,266
Dirt is a LOT more fun.
Get a small light crappy bike and practice locking up the back wheel, power slides around turns, falling, etc.
Its one of those things that is fun while you learn, and fun after you learn.

The more fun you have, the more you fall down, or is it the other way around?
NJ-Brett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2013, 12:52 PM   #11
BanjoBoy
Studly Adventurer
 
BanjoBoy's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2009
Location: Northern CA
Oddometer: 874
Quote:
Originally Posted by PMC View Post
It's easier to learn on a small and light bike. The bigger the bike and more top heavy the bike the harder it is to learn on.
If your ATV trails are anything like ours in MN and WI practice in sand and then more sand and then a little more deep sand.
^THIS^
Get you a small, light, cheap bike, so it's easier to control, and when you bail, you won't cry like the BMW crowd.
__________________
2007 FJR1300
2007 FZ6 (Dirt bike)
BanjoBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2013, 12:57 PM   #12
Keithert OP
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jan 2013
Oddometer: 674
I have an 05 XT225. It is small and light, but not a beater.
__________________
2007 Yamaha Royal Star Tour Deluxe
2005 Suzuki V-Strom 650
2005 Yamaha XT225
Keithert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2013, 03:23 PM   #13
el queso
toda su base
 
el queso's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2009
Location: colinas del norte, california sur
Oddometer: 654
Unless you have an experienced group to ride with, I would suggest you get some real dirt training. The basic concepts (like brake before the turn, look through the turn, etc) are the same, but the techniques are totally different. In the dirt you have to learn to shift weight fore and aft, when to weight the seat and when to weight the pegs, when to stand, when to use power to position the back end, and it goes on and on.

That said, if you just plan on cruising down some dirt roads, watch some vids on youtube, go slow and you'll be fine.
el queso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2013, 04:00 PM   #14
eatpasta
Lawnmower Target
 
eatpasta's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Location: Santa Barbara, Ca
Oddometer: 10,076
find good riders and ride with them. bottom line.
they will teach you what is possible..... and you wont believe what is possible on a dirt bike. Just ask Graham Jarvis

incidentally, best way to keep your boots dry in a creek crossing, EVER

__________________
We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time.
T. S. Eliot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burnszilla
I was SO high, I could have hunted duck with a rake
Quote:
Originally Posted by VxZeroKnots View Post
MX stuff isn't my cup of tea, but falling down the side of a mountain is
eatpasta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2013, 08:03 PM   #15
Kommando
Grumpy Young Man
 
Kommando's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: Spacecoaster FL
Oddometer: 6,720
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keithert View Post
I've been riding on the street for 22 years and have been an MSF instructor in the past. I think I know how to ride on the street pretty well. But I'm new to riding offroad. I'm considering taking the MSF dirt bike school in the spring. What are some other good ways to learn to ride offroad?
Wide open 'til you see Beelzebubba. I'll hold your beer and watch.
Kommando is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 03:04 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014