How to get proof of ownership for a bike w/no title

[CS_0427]

Originally Posted by der_saeufer

OK people, read the Vermont DMV's instructions.

There are three rules in play here: bikes under 300cc are never titled, nothing 15+ years old is titled, but bikes over 500cc require a VIN verification even if they're not titled.

This leads to four possibilities:

1) bike under 300cc: not titled in VT, regardless of age. No VIN verification required, no title required. Send bill of sale, complete application and fees, get registration and license plate. An EX250 fits into this category regardless of age. You are reading this correctly: even a brand new EX250/CRF250L/etc. in Vermont is not titled.

2) bike >300cc but <500cc and 15+ years old: no title, no VIN verification. Send bill of sale, complete application and fees, get registration and license plate. This small category would apply to a 1976 KZ400, for example.

3) bike >500cc and 15+ years old: no title, but VIN verification required. Send bill of sale, complete application, VIN verification form and fees, get registration and license plate. Exception: if you have a VT registration for this bike in any previous owner's name, the VIN verification is waived. For this purpose, the previous registration can be expired. You do have to submit a copy in lieu of the VIN verification. A 1981 CB750 fits into this category.

4) bike >300cc and 0-14 years old: these bikes are titled in Vermont. You'll need a title to get anywhere if your machine fits this category, and if you have the title, you can probably go through your own state. Should you choose to title in Vermont anyway, you'll need a VIN verification in addition to the properly endorsed title from the seller.

Just in case anyone is wondering, for cars there are only two possibilities: either it's 15+ years old or it's not. Cars 15+ years old never need a VIN verification; that special requirement is only for motorcycles. Cars 0-14 years old are titled.

Also worth noting is that Vermont has started to bust people trying to register dirt bikes. If your bike was not originally manufactured for street use, prepare to be asked to show that the bike is street legal. They go by the VIN, so factory dualsports won't be an issue since they've always been street bikes in the eyes of USDOT.

Tax: Sales tax is based on the purchase price or NADA's New England price guide, whichever is higher. DMV will give book values over the phone. In my experience, whether they check the book value is hit or miss; they seem more likely to check on mailed applications than ones submitted in person. If you want to fight over the value, the appraisal has to be done by a Vermont licensed dealer, so if you're not close to Vermont, you're essentially left to pay up or shut up. Per ride4321 below, the minimum value for tax purposes is now $500, so you pay tax on $500 ($30 at the current 6%) if you paid less for the bike.

Inspection: Vermont does not suspend registrations for lack of an inspection certificate like Mass (and possibly NY?) does. If you ride in Vermont on Vermont plates without an inspection sticker, you can be cited. If you ride in a state without safety inspection, you're good to go. If you ride in a state other than Vermont that does have safety inspection, check your local laws. I believe NH and Maine have specific reciprocity with Vermont and could (in theory) cite you; in other states I have no idea--we don't have that shit out West and I don't live in Mass anymore.

Insurance: This is between you, your insurance company, and any cop that happens to stop you. Vermont does not use an insurance database to suspend registrations of uninsured vehicles like a substantial number of states do. Riding without insurance is illegal in 45+ states (including Vermont), though, so going without is an extremely bad idea. Get insurance. Your insurance company doesn't care where the bike is tagged.

Over and above all of this, it's generally illegal for a resident of a state to register his vehicles elsewhere. If you get stopped by your local gendarme with Vermont plates and can't talk your way out of the ticket for not registering your bike in your state, don't come crying to me about it. Check those light bulbs, people!

ETA: if you live close enough to Vermont to visit one of their DMV offices, just do that. They can do VIN checks there, and they hand plates over the counter. I've done two bikes, one by mail and one in person. I also registered a car by mail and then transferred those plates in person to a different car after some stupid Masshole flattened the first car. Every one of those vehicles was later registered in another state (Colorado for both bikes and the flattened car, Mass for the replacement car) with minimal hassle.

Quoting this so it appears again, and adding some more info. If you've done this recently, please correct anything I'm posting that is wrong.

I'm ready to submit for my old Suzuki, and since we know how much the taxes are, I thought I'd have a crack at the fees.

Vermont general DMV fee page


Registration

Payment Information

Please adhere to the following guidelines when mailing a payment (unless other instructions are on the form/application being submitted):

1. All payments must be for the correct amount.
2. Payment must be made in U.S. Funds only.
3. Submit a check or money order (do not send cash) payable to: Department of Motor Vehicles.
4. Payment by “bad check” will result in additional fee assessment of $20.00.

Acceptable payment methods-

Mailed transactions

• Personal or business check
• Money order
• No 2-party checks accepted

Registration fees
I could not properly copy & paste the below info, so I'm typing it in.
Type of vehicle:
Motorcycle, gas powered, 1 year is $44.00, two years is $88.00.

DMV Mailing Address
Department of Motor Vehicles
120 State St.
Montpelier, VT 05603-0001

802-828-2000

So in summary, what I'm seeing is tax @ 6% (minimum value $500) + $44.00 for a gas-powered bike. For a minimum $500 bike, the total is $74.00.

Again, if I've missed anything here, please let me know and I'll update this post. My goal is to send one money order there and get what I need.

UPDATE
I thought before sending in money, I'd call to verify all they need is the $44 + tax (I'm used to like 10 fees and DMV add-ons here in FL). Calling the # I posted above sends you through a "press 1 for..." maze. If calling about registrations, it says your call may be answered by an inmate at one of our correctional facilities! There is also an option to talk to a DMV worker, so that is what I did. I spoke to Sharon and she verified for a 15+ year old over 500cc bike, the cost is $44 plus the tax. No other fees.

[Grifter_500]

With a Honda CX-500 being 497 cc does anyone know if it would fall into the under 500 cc area?

My bike is a 1981 Honda CX-500 (497 cc). I am trying to figure out what all forms I need to fill out and if I need to have the vin verified so that I can get a title on it.

[CS_0427]

Originally Posted by Grifter_500

With a Honda CX-500 being 497 cc does anyone know if it would fall into the under 500 cc area?

My bike is a 1981 Honda CX-500 (497 cc). I am trying to figure out what all forms I need to fill out and if I need to have the vin verified so that I can get a title on it.

Reading the info above, since the ACTUAL displacement is 497cc, it is under 500cc. The manufacturer can call it an SUX6000 but if the actual displacement is only 5000 that is how it is registered. Since it is also over 15 years old, you'd use the KZ400 example from the info above.

[Grifter_500]

Thanks so much. I was thinking that my self but my head was kinda spinning with the info and I was not sure on the 500 cc since it was so close.

I will be sure to post update if this works and also when I get my Indiana title as well.

[der_saeufer]

Originally Posted by CS_0427

Again, if I've missed anything here, please let me know and I'll update this post. My goal is to send one money order there and get what I need.

Looks like you got it. Just don't forget to send the bill of sale

And yeah, 497 < 500, so that CX500 is fine--the form asks for the engine size specifically, so they'll see that the "500" is actually 497cc.

[isu2014]

I read through quite a bit of the thread and never really got a good answer so... For my vin verification, what forms do I need? A Vermont specific one or just go to the courthouse here in IA and have them do it? Or can I do it online for $25 and bypass talking to people? I think they are free at the courthouse though.

[showtime45]

Since Illinois is passing a new law in June that states off road motorcycles must have an off road stamp to ride anywhere other than your own land, I need a title for a 1974 Yamaha 250. A title must be shown to get the stamp. What do I need to do for the title only? No plate needed. I hate this state!!!!!!!!!


New Law - Illinois Dept. Natural Resources

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/full...D=11&Session=0

[Jeff@TheQuadShop]

Will this work if your trying to get a title that says "offroad use only" to one that is for street?

[showtime45]

Originally Posted by Jeff@TheQuadShop

Will this work if your trying to get a title that says "offroad use only" to one that is for street?

That"s exactly what I need ! "Offroad use only" would tickle me pink !!!

[Boatman]

Originally Posted by isu2014

I read through quite a bit of the thread and never really got a good answer so... For my vin verification, what forms do I need? A Vermont specific one or just go to the courthouse here in IA and have them do it? Or can I do it online for $25 and bypass talking to people? I think they are free at the courthouse though.

http://dmv.vermont.gov/sites/dmv/fil...rification.pdf

Read the bottom of the second page.

That said,,,, I registered a vehicle for a friend in Nevada. Nevada has it's own VIN verification form and that is what I gave the VT DMV.

[Boatman]

Originally Posted by Jeff@TheQuadShop

Will this work if your trying to get a title that says "offroad use only" to one that is for street?

I just got my 390 Berg done with an MSO that said "Off Road Only". The bike had to be inspected for all the required road equipment prior to going to the DMV. Needed.... DOT tires, DOT head and tail light, brake light and horn. Turn signals weren't required. The inspector filled out this form,
http://dmv.vermont.gov/sites/dmv/fil...ction_Form.pdf The part that says "Title branded as:" gets filled in with "off road only".

Not sure how to go about this inspection part from where you are. A call to the DMV might get you an answer.

It's my understanding from people that have tried that some states will still not give you a registration for on road after getting it in VT. NY for example runs the VIN through a database that determines if the vehicle was factory road legal or not.

[Ken F]

I missed a number in my vin so vt wanted a vin check. My local PD was able to do it.I sent it in and haven't heard a thing.guess I'm OK.

[Jeff@TheQuadShop]

Originally Posted by Boatman

I just got my 390 Berg done with an MSO that said "Off Road Only". The bike had to be inspected for all the required road equipment prior to going to the DMV. Needed.... DOT tires, DOT head and tail light, brake light and horn. Turn signals weren't required. The inspector filled out this form,
http://dmv.vermont.gov/sites/dmv/fil...ction_Form.pdf The part that says "Title branded as:" gets filled in with "off road only".

Not sure how to go about this inspection part from where you are. A call to the DMV might get you an answer.

It's my understanding from people that have tried that some states will still not give you a registration for on road after getting it in VT. NY for example runs the VIN through a database that determines if the vehicle was factory road legal or not.

I guess that means it won't work for me. My cousin has a WR450 that was street titled in 06 only to have someone at the KY state office catch it last year and pulled his plate. They would not let him get his truck renewed until he turned in his bike plate.

[der_saeufer]

Originally Posted by showtime45

Since Illinois is passing a new law in June that states off road motorcycles must have an off road stamp to ride anywhere other than your own land, I need a title for a 1974 Yamaha 250. A title must be shown to get the stamp. What do I need to do for the title only? No plate needed. I hate this state!!!!!!!!

According to your linked site, that's not a done deal yet. If it ends up being law, getting an off-road title is often easier, but that depends *widely* by state: some states don't title OHVs at all, though it looks like IL does. I'd check with the Illinois DMV. Vermont can't help you, because that bike would be completely undocumented in VT.

Originally Posted by Boatman

That said,,,, I registered a vehicle for a friend in Nevada. Nevada has it's own VIN verification form and that is what I gave the VT DMV.

Vermont says they want their own form, but you're not the only one I've heard of who has successfully used the "official" form from another state successfully. I've personally never done it--the only bikes I've tagged in VT have been exempt (under 500cc or previously VT registered).

Originally Posted by Boatman

Not sure how to go about this inspection part from where you are. A call to the DMV might get you an answer.

It's my understanding from people that have tried that some states will still not give you a registration for on road after getting it in VT. NY for example runs the VIN through a database that determines if the vehicle was factory road legal or not.

This is a huge variation between states. In some states, registering a dirt bike for street use is a joke: fill out forms, pay $$, swear that the bike has all the state-required equipment (surprisingly little in some states), leave with plate. When I lived in Colorado, you could plate essentially anything, some county motor vehicle offices took your word that it had a horn, brake light, etc. and a lot of stuff (e.g. blinkers) wasn't even required. In others, it's just plain impossible. For example, California has required the full complement of equipment (blinkers, speedo, odo, brake light, horn, etc.) for decades and is now enforcing emissions rules that make it essentially impossible to plate a dirt bike made after 1978.

Plus, while ~45 states title all street-legal motorcycles, a fair number of states don't title off-road motorcycles, which can be an issue trying to plate one.

One last note: most VIN databases only include real VINs, which only became mandatory on 1981 model street-legal vehicles (though some '80s and very few '79s have them). On older bikes, it's quite likely that there's no database that can tell by a serial number whether a bike is street-legal or not. A post-81 bike without a VIN, though, is a quick trip to no-tag-town without going through the full formal procedures.

[CS_0427]

I thought before sending in money, I'd call to verify all they need is the $44 + tax (I'm used to like 10 fees and DMV add-ons here in FL). Calling the # I posted above sends you through a "press 1 for..." maze. If calling about registrations, it says your call may be answered by an inmate at one of our correctional facilities! There is also an option to talk to a DMV worker, so that is what I'm doing. Will update after I get off hold.

UPDATE
I spoke to Sharon and she verified for a 15+ year old over 500cc bike, the cost is $44 plus the tax. No other fees.