KTM - LC4 Round the World ADVenturization

its all good i'll go with the safari and no fuel pump but thanks for trying for me

The 640 A has a small vacuum operated fuel pump that allows you to get the last bits of fuel out of the tank... In other words 80-90% of the fuel will flow to the carb with gravity and rather than have the KLR trapped fuel syndrome, KTM installed the pump to make use of the last remaining bits... If the pump does crap out you can hook direct to the carb or replace the pump diaphragms, so in reality losing the pump is not a show stopper like it is on the F.I. bikes...

The Safari tank must hold the fuel up higher in order to not need a pump to make use of all the capacity... I wonder if it has a crossover line to move fuel from one wing to the other?

Good move to go with the Safari, my Adventure tank leads takes me to 2 tanks that have already sold...

Would the safari tank be lighter, and perhaps easier to repair if the need arises?

just read thru your thread, lots of good information there for me when i get to that point, you are doing some killer work there, and in your garage as well with what looks like limited resources

the main key to what you are doing is learning every little part of your bike, so 'if' anything happens out on the trail you will know where to look and how to fix it quickly and cleanly, i'm saying this as a guy who used to build about 100 bikes a year

if your tank isn't mounted yet, weigh it and make a note, i will do the same when i get the safari so we can compare

i will keep track of everything that comes off and on the bike to see what the final figure is as well

I realise these are different bikes in many respects but do you think the DR could be as good as the KTM, even simpler with air cooling. There is a 790 big bore kit as well that takes the DR to 55HP at the wheel apparently.

I realise this is a bit out of context so ignore it if it risks widening the thread too much.

Your prep is getting me thinking along the lines of a single for an across Russia ride although mine will be less certain that your's for some time yet.

dave

Thanks! Yup I'm doing all the work in my garage with fairly simple tools. I'm learning tons about the bike as I go, I love having that info with me when I ride. Really knowing your bike is probably one of the best tools you can have in your tool kit.

I haven't mounted up my tank yet, I'll weigh it and post up what I find.

Looking forward to seeing what you do with your bike and following along with your ride report, excellent work.

how i would look at is this, it weighs more about 15+ kgs more, there is no way to get that weight off the bike to make it the same as this KTM, its impossible, i personally wanted a 250 or a bike that weighs as much as a 250 and thats why i ended up buying a SXC, Dave you know me i'll ride it like a 250 as well

now the things you need to consider is the level of components, by the time you change a lot of stuff out on the DR what have you raised the price too? or if you get a used one with low mileage with some farkles on it do the prices even out, i looked at DR's and i was see bikes with 5-10,000 miles on them for the same price and i still had to spend another $3-5000 to make them equivalent before i started looking at the real mods i needed to make

as for doing a big bore kit i would go against that 100%, reason being you are looking to go into the middle of nowhere, if there is an big issue you want to be able to get parts, by doing a kit like this you have reduced you availability of suppliers down to maybe one company and unless you are the one who did all the work, all the mechanics that know and understand has reduced as well...do the fixes that cure common problems but always try to keep as close as stock on a ride like that for dependability

if i were you as you have plenty of time i would test ride every bike out there you have the interest in and make a few judgement calls

well said...could not agree more




did everyone get that, now go into your garage and take your bikes apart




.

put your popcorn down and say something

"as good as the KTM" at What? The DR won't match a 625 off road without extensive, expensive mods. Even with the 790 kit, I doubt it could match the KTM in speed.
But as a LD travel/touring bike? For me, I'll take the DR650. If I were a better mechanic and was willing to carry tools & spares, I would consider the KTM.
Having owned and tested KTM's since the late 1980's ... I do love the bikes. But it's essentially a race bike, not really designed to go 50,000 miles carrying a big load on terrible roads. The DR needs about $1500 to be travel ready from stock. Stock motor is best for Russia or any LD travel, IMHO.

Weight
I'd be interested to know what the KTM will weigh once bash plate, bark busters, racks, gussets, tools, parts, hardware and luggage are all attached.
Still lighter than the DR I'm sure. Paul, I'd like to see a weight figure, wet, once you get to that point. I'd go with your 15 kg. figure (33 lbs.) estimate.
Dave, having ridden a kitted DR725 (JE HC Piston, hot cam, Pumper carb) I can assure you it makes no where near 55 HP. The KTM 640's will still smoke the DR in any speed contest ... and I doubt the 790 is much better.

I compared DR's ... back to back to my stock DR650 (two other DR's actually) The kitted DR was stronger and snappier off the bottom ... after that, about the same as my stock bike but used about 15% more fuel doing aggressive riding.
For long range travel, speed and off road prowess aren't a priority (for me). Longevity, simplicity and strength are. Some folks wouldn't be caught dead on a DR or a KLR ... and I can understand why having ridden a stock KLR through Baja and Mexico for 5500 miles and six weeks. It sucked!

A modded DR is better, still ... not much of a dirt bike compared to the KTM. But going RTW isn't about dirt bikes it's about making it through. The DR is the poor mans, low dollar, compromise bike. Cheap and expendable.

Excellent advice. Riding and comparing is the only way. Ride the one that speaks to you.

mechanics don't bother me at all, you'll see that when i eventually get into tearing this bike down

as for it being more of a dirt bike than the DR or even my XT, thats exactly what i wanted, my RTW will not be a race or restricted by time so it will be leisurely time frame (think years with lots of down time) interjected with crazy dirt riding moments that this bike can handle while the riders of the DR's, KLR's, GSA, 990's, XC's, F800's, sit and wait while i go and have fun while they empty out there 150 liter $2000 luggage to find there titanium stoves to make themselves a coffee because they didn't get the memo about "lighter is better..."

A man after me own 'art

Some good advice above. One thing I'll add; reinforce your subframe. (see p2 of that thread also)

Come visit when you hit NZ. Crazy dirt riding & LC4 maintenance are local specialities

I'll be interested to see what you come up with for lighting, I'm thinking of upgrading mine, current idea is a cheap std 7" round H4, plus an aux LED spot & an integrated small windscreen. The present stock setup is only slightly less arse than the 625 version light wise but it is similarly light weight & damage resistant.

Cheers
Clint

Thanks for the feedback chaps, looks like the big bore DR might be out. It's difficult really but a lot of fun looking at different options.
I just rode my GSA 7000+ miles in South America and it worked great but not in difficult off road conditions.
I think if you are going to be 2 up then the actual bike weight probably matters a lot less given the weight of 2 people plus gear. When we travel 2 up we weigh 180 kilos including ourselves and all our kit/tools etc. We need about 180ltrs of space inc tank bag.

Is that a reasonable assumption or does the bike weight still count a lot, if so what would be the min power for 2 up work. I think about 80HP at sea level works well due to the loss of probably 30HP at 5000m.

Do the weights, volumes and HP sound OK.

If we exclude cost as a criteria what would be your choice for ADV travel, a) 1 up and b) 2 up. With, say, 30% dirt road (ie still road but no concrete or asphalt)

I'll get out of your way now Paul, thanks for the feedback. I'm looking forwards to seeing what you build, I'm still amazed you managed to find that bike with such a low mileage.

cheers dave

it was one of the first things i checked when i looked the bike over, nothing done so i can brace it accordingly, for strength and longevity too

you might want to look into resonating/ vibration, from the larger front frame area and then reducing in size to the rear may be putting additional stress back there too on some of the joints and bends and hairline crack welds, also careful not to undercut your welds as this creates weak points

never presume the original factory welds are perfect, while you have yours apart i would double check every single joint

also when you add structure (bracing) looking into getting some dimpling dies then you can add the strength but reduce the weight significantly at the same time for the added material

i will be in touch for sure when i get there, nothing like a local guide who has a well equipped garage, i'll provide the welding classes and crazy stories if you provide the beers

two up riding is a whole different animal than what i'm looking at here, i'm looking at soft luggage, minimal everything basically, lots of time away from civilization to places that have minimal bike tracks whenever possible and is geared towards my selfishness of wanting to go where i want to go and not having to worry if the bike can come along, and more to the point get back wink:

my build is geared more towards what you have been reading in Walter Colebatch's ride report

also i wouldn't take riding at 5000 meter into consideration unless you are spending a lot of time in the Himalayas around Nepal or the Andes...i would be looking more at averages 1500-3000 meters....i think a more suitable bike for what you are talking about maybe a BMW F800 or the Triumph XC 800 with the new huge aftermarket gas tank

Hi Clintz,
Just curious, with your subframe cracking were you running luggage racks that brace down to the footpeg area or just a unbraced load on the tail with softbags...

I have gotten away with 160,000 km on the original sub frame and this incudes about 20,000 - 30,000 km of loaded 2 up travel... This I think is due to the extra strength my luggage rack setup provides to the rear end... I have had to weld the luggage bracket braces a couple times due to some stress cracks but never the subframe...

Paul, with you being an accomplished welder you could come up with some kind of lightweight bracing similar to what the racks give... If you are running softbags the braces could be made to hold them away from the muffler/ sidepanel... I believe this would be stronger than adding gussets into the existing rear framework as long as the bracing properly lines up to the bolt holes with out stress... I see on the rally bikes they add an extra strut to help support the extra weight of the fuel tanks... Have you got something like this in mind?

Sounds like you're on to it The amount of metal you need to add is fairly minimal really.

Another thing to think about while modding the subframe is the rack attachment points. I'm currently making new soft pannier racks & stronger tail rack mounts & have bored out the rear bolt holes to take 8mm rather than the std 6mm fasteners which have broken a couple of times.

Cheers
Clint