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Old 01-18-2013, 03:36 AM   #46
muttley92
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Hi guys I'm new to this forum, just chanced upon this thread whilst looking for info about my own project. I have a similar bike on the go at the moment but with the later high flow engine, had it running a couple of weeks ago after replacing the starter clutch. I had a lot of trouble getting it to start but not as much as this! traced the problem to the standard carb, it just wouldn't run on the bst 40. whether that was an underlying issue with the carb I bought or a general fault im unsure. I had an FCR 41 anyway and it fired straight up on that. worth thinking about if you still cant get it sorted after a rebuild. where abouts are you based Sam? if you're fairly local I might be able to help out with some bits. be good to get a rideout going when you get it fixed.

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Old 01-19-2013, 12:53 PM   #47
popmonkey69
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Fingers crossed you get it going Sam

Reading your thread and Muttley's post has convinced me to go ahead with an LC4 conversion on my RS125 in the summer

Just need an engine now


popmonkey69 screwed with this post 01-20-2013 at 01:05 PM Reason: Added photo
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Old 02-11-2013, 04:01 PM   #48
sam_2555 OP
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A bit more progress

Muttley, me and the engine are in Liverpool and the rest of the bike is in my Dad's garage near Preston. If it doesn't go after the rebuild and a new flywheel pickup the use of a good carb for an afternoon would be great. I've cleaned the one I'm using and bought new bits where necessary but it could just be something I've overlooked that's stopping it going. Testing with a known good one would be really useful, otherwise I'm going to have to fork out for an FCR myself to eliminate the possible problem.

Popmonkey, do it! And yours has the nice wheels as well. I really want some of those and I think there's another Aprilia that has the same style front but with twin discs. I can't really justify buying some just because they're pretty though. I can't wait to ride mine. I took my Street Triple out for a last ride round the block before I sell it the other day, it's the first time I'd ridden a bike in 2 months, it's crazy how much you miss it. I need to get this thing running and on the road as soon as possible. If you do go for it, make sure your engine works before you pay for it and avoid all this mucking around.

I got the head back from the machine shop the other day with the seats recut for the highflow 32mm exhaust valves. The inlet valves and seats were fine so I lapped in the old inlets and shiny new exhausts. Someone must have done this before, does anyone know what kind of power they made?

There was 0.1mm of float on the crank. Seemed a bit on the high side but still in spec. I took the crank back today to get the runout checked. Still haven't got to the ratchet gear in the kickstart assembly yet though. That's tomorrows job.

I'll post a few pictures if I find anything interesting when I get to the gear. There is a fair few bits of swarf getting about in the dregs of the engine oil that really don't look good.

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Old 02-13-2013, 04:36 AM   #49
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Been watching this for a while now. Can't wait to hear the outcome.
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Old 02-15-2013, 06:20 AM   #50
muttley92
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I live in Northampton and the bike is based in Loughborough so it's a bit of a trek up north. The kickstart mechanism is useless anyway so I'd say remove it all together if you can, save some weight. I'm interested in the front end conversion you've done as the standard forks are terrible. I'm currently trying to find somewhere to plastic weld my fuel tank up to clear the motor. Not much point playing with my carb settings until i finish the exhaust. Be good to see you sorted and on the road though.
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Old 02-16-2013, 09:49 AM   #51
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Is this progress?

I got to the kickstart mechanism a couple of days ago. I'm not entirely sure how it's supposed to work, but I'm pretty sure the torsional spring on the shaft should have some tension in it. It didn't. This is probably what allowed the two kickstart gears to mesh constantly and chip away at each other (see pic below). There was also a bit of unusual wear on the shift mechanism support.


Shift mechanism support:


See the scratches on the 2 faces of the shift mechanism support? Maybe caused by some debris in the engine from a failed mainshaft bearing or the kickstarter gears?

I'm going to bin the whole kick start assembly (apart from the shaft obviously). There's no point having redundant parts in there if it can be avoided eh?

I've inspected the head and found a casting imperfection/bit of damage in the combustion chamber that could result in a hot spot and cause pre ignition. That's going to get dremelled in due course. A bigger concern is the shape of one of the exhaust ports, pretty seriously ovalled. Nearlly 2mm taller than it was wide! The right port was 29.1mm horizontal and 28.7mm vertical, the left was 29.1mm vertical and 27.3mm horizontal.

Since I don't have a flow bench or years of porting and polishing experience the best I can hope to acheive here is just cleaning up the casting and getting rid of any glaringly obvious errors like the oval port. I'll do what I can with the head for now until I can get a CAD model sorted out and run some proper CFD analysis on it and see what I can get out.

Muttley, when I got the bike it had an Aprilia MK1 RS250 front end on it. It probably would have been ok but it was all pretty old and tired and I got a ridiculous deal on the Street Triple R bits so on they went. It's still using the RS250 yokes as they have the same centres as a Street Triple R conveniently so I didn't need any new wheel spacers, but the lower yokes are 2mm bigger diameter than STR so I've put a spacer in there. I put a new set of bearings in as well. I don't think they're standard because of the RS250 yokes but I can't remember the size now.

I've still got the MK1 forks, you can have them for 30 if you want them. Probably not worth the hassle though. One leg has a spring, the other does the damping.

The tank thing is a bitch right?! The guy who had the bike before me took a heat gun to the inner so it nearly fits. I think with a bit more heat and encouragement it will fit. Are you building this bike for a project at uni or something? My mate built the exact same bike as mine at uni and I think he was at Loughborough. I'm moving down that way (Leicester) in September so if both bikes are finished we'll have to go out for a ride or a track day.

Any advice on what sealant to use on the crankcase halves, if any? Anyone who's done this job before used any sealant?

Sam.
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Old 02-16-2013, 10:20 AM   #52
Droptarotter
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Sam;
Those kick start gears usually look like that if someone takes a "run" at kickstarting the bike. By that I mean just jumping on the kick starter without moving down a bit to engage.

For sealant, I like Locktite 515, but something like Yamabond or any of the anerobic sealants will work.

DO NOT USE SILICONE!

Hard to tell on the shift mechanism support...........from the photo it just looks like it's supposed to be that way??? Sometimes aluminum castings have a section like that for some reason.........not really sure???

Cheers
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Old 02-17-2013, 02:45 AM   #53
muttley92
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That's interesting to know, Like to know how it handles when you get it running. I can get Marzocchi forks for mine but they're still only single disc, not that it matters particularly at this stage but might look into it in the future. Think I've got a way round the tank problem, cut the bottom out of mine and inverted it so its now concave and found someone to plastic weld it back together for me. I'm currently second year mechanical engineering at Loughborough but the bike is nothing to do with my course, just a personal project. I've not heard anything about another one being built here though. Come July I'll be moving back to Northampton as I'm taking a year out to work for Red Bull Technology in Milton Keynes. But Leicester isn't far away really, Donnington would be good as its fairly close. Don't suppose you know where the previous owner got the single seat hump from? Looks mint.
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Old 02-17-2013, 07:17 AM   #54
Kawidad
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Old 02-23-2013, 03:24 AM   #55
sam_2555 OP
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New carb

I've been looking at carbs for a while thinking that I might need to buy one to try out if the bike still doesn't run after all this. Saw a Mikuni TM-40 with a busted adjuster on ebay 80 so I bought it. Then had to pay 20 for the tiny bit of plastic that does the adjusting. I think I'm still winning though, it's almost brand new So now I have a pumper carb to fit when I've put it all back together

Still waiting for the crank to come back from the machine shop. The guy said his machine operator has been off for two weeks, so it'll be next week before I get it back and that's only if it's straight.

I've had to buy 5 bottles of 5ml of loctite 648 for the water pump rebuild. Obviously I don't need all 5. I probably need about 2 drops of the stuff but I couldn't find any cheaper way of getting some. If anyone reading this is doing a water pump rebuild give me a shout and I'll throw one of these bottles in an envelope for you. Giving something back to the collective and all that.

I want to put a radiator fan switch into the cooling system somewhere and the radiator I'm using doesn't have a boss for one. I'm going to have to use an adaptor, something like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1107735431...84.m1436.l2649

All I can find is adaptors with a threaded hole for temperature sensors, not switches. I think I'm going to get a friend to knock something up for me, but the big question is what temperature should I turn the fan on at? I know the old temp switch closes at 85oC and from 03 it's set at 98oC. Both switches are in the same place in the radiator so that can't be the reason for the difference. I've checked the threads on this and still can't come up with an answer, Muttley suggested the extra oil jet to the piston on the 03+, I reckon that's got to be a factor but 13oC seems a lot. Maybe it's something ot do with emissions? Anyway, I was going to put the adaptor in the pipe on the return to the water pump from the rad, as close to the rad as possible to emulate the standard position as closely as possible. I'm thinking I might go for something in the middle of the range, around 95oC and turning off at 90. I'll be running an oil cooler as well, but that will be mainly just for the extra capacity that's missing from the oil in frame. Decisions decisions........

Any input on this would be greatly appreciated, especially if anyone out there has any experience with changing the rad switches round on the LC4.

Cheers,

Sam.
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Old 02-24-2013, 07:22 PM   #56
bmwktmbill
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Hey Sam,
Now you have a great KTM mystery. Damned if I know?
If Gunnerbuck doesn't see this send him a PM, maybe he knows the why?

Like you I would like to be enlightened.
bill
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Old 02-24-2013, 08:29 PM   #57
gunnerbuck
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The 03 engine did not have a second oil jet, it was still just a single spray #80 jet... Some of the 03 engines were supplied with a bayonet style jet rather than the Mikuni flat style that came in the pre 02 and earlier models...

I pretty sure you will be safe to go with the 03s 98C spec for the fan to kick on as those engines are a little higher strung than the earlier models and fare just fine... During the whole time I have owned my bike the fan has only kicked on about a half dozen times, in fact the engine rarely runs out of the 80-85C range... Mounting an oil cooler is a very good idea, especially if you do any kind of track days with the bike...

Your kick start spring needs to be tensioned up with the shaft in place using the kickstart, then you can tighten the lock bolt at the back of the engine which engages a recess to hold it in place... It seems to me that that engine has not had the best treatment on it's way to life in your hands...

The shift support still looks OK to me, the wear on the faces may be just from oil spray off the gears... I would think if actual chunks of debris went through the gearbox your gear faces would be somewhat chewed up...
If the gear selector and gear box run smoothly and shift through the 5 gears with crisp efficiency I wouldn't worry about them...

Rather than use sealant on the center case gaskets I would very much recommend you get the proper OEM gasket for it... The biggest thing is you need to know and to have is a specific thickness for the gasket when you go to measure up and fit the crank back into the case... It is very important to get the case to crank shaft clearance to spec, too tight onto the bearing and your crank may seize, to loose and it will be slapping back and forth causing excessive vibration and wear... Besides the OEM center case gasket is one of the cheapest priced gaskets for this engine...

The TM -40 is a good alternative to the FCR at a much cheaper price...

gunnerbuck screwed with this post 02-24-2013 at 08:55 PM
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Old 03-30-2013, 08:31 AM   #58
muttley92
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Camshaft issue

I've now got mine apart because it knocked like a sod, this is what i found



Ive also started a build thread for my project.
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=874714
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Old 04-02-2013, 01:18 PM   #59
sam_2555 OP
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What's this about then?

So, just rebuilt the cylinder head using my new and improved valve spring compressor (got a mate to weld a couple of gussets in the corners to stop it from bending).

Slight hiccup when I was reinstalling the inlet valve springs.......

I had to get the machine shop to extract the inlet valves because the spring compressor (pre modification) was so weedy it bent a bit doing the exhaust valves and then bent so far it was unusable when I was attempting the inlets. At the time I put this down to the inlets needing stiffer springs because they're a fair bit bigger. Turns out both sets of springs have the same part number now, both just labelled as 'Rallye spring kit'. Anyway, opening the box I got back from the machine shop with all the springs and stuff in it I find a couple of spacers (That's my labelling on the bag, not the machine shop's).

They fit pretty much exactly between the valve spring cap and the smaller diameter inner spring. They're 9.3mm tall, 17mm OD and 14mm ID.

Anyone ever found anything like this before? Were these used to increase the preload on the inner inlet valve springs so the same springs could be used as on the exhaust pre-rallye spring kit? Are the inner springs just there as some sort of damper to stop the valve bouncing after its closed? Maybe the large outer spring was sufficient to pull the inlet valve closed but due to it's larger weight it would need a stiffer inner spring to stop it from oscillating? OR have the machine shop just seen a couple of spacers on the bench after stripping my head and thrown them in the same box as my stuff?

I'm starting to worry myself writing this. I haven't put them back in because the diagrams I've seen don't show them and I have never read of anyone else having spacers in the valve train. It seems like a bit of a bodge by KTM if they are OEM.

I'd really appreciate any input from anyone who's ever stripped a black head.

Cheers guys.
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Old 04-02-2013, 05:15 PM   #60
gunnerbuck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_2555 View Post
So, just rebuilt the cylinder head using my new and improved valve spring compressor (got a mate to weld a couple of gussets in the corners to stop it from bending).

Slight hiccup when I was reinstalling the inlet valve springs.......

I had to get the machine shop to extract the inlet valves because the spring compressor (pre modification) was so weedy it bent a bit doing the exhaust valves and then bent so far it was unusable when I was attempting the inlets. At the time I put this down to the inlets needing stiffer springs because they're a fair bit bigger. Turns out both sets of springs have the same part number now, both just labelled as 'Rallye spring kit'. Anyway, opening the box I got back from the machine shop with all the springs and stuff in it I find a couple of spacers (That's my labelling on the bag, not the machine shop's).

They fit pretty much exactly between the valve spring cap and the smaller diameter inner spring. They're 9.3mm tall, 17mm OD and 14mm ID.

Anyone ever found anything like this before? Were these used to increase the preload on the inner inlet valve springs so the same springs could be used as on the exhaust pre-rallye spring kit? Are the inner springs just there as some sort of damper to stop the valve bouncing after its closed? Maybe the large outer spring was sufficient to pull the inlet valve closed but due to it's larger weight it would need a stiffer inner spring to stop it from oscillating? OR have the machine shop just seen a couple of spacers on the bench after stripping my head and thrown them in the same box as my stuff?

I'm starting to worry myself writing this. I haven't put them back in because the diagrams I've seen don't show them and I have never read of anyone else having spacers in the valve train. It seems like a bit of a bodge by KTM if they are OEM.

I'd really appreciate any input from anyone who's ever stripped a black head.

Cheers guys.
I don't think they're for the valves, those look like the alignment dowels that insert into the gasket surface of the head...
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