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Old 02-24-2013, 07:12 PM   #7471
thorinoakenshield
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Pissed Rear wheel spacer on sprocket side srsly pissing me off!

What's the deal with the rear wheel spacers on the sprocket side?
I had this problem before, and I kind of ignored it. Now, I'm chaning my rear tire again and I was determined to remove the leftmost spacer.
What a pain in the ass! I had to bang it out with a screwdriver and aluminum rod. I marred the spacer all up to holy hell!!



Whoops....not a big deal,really.....


Why was I so determined? I wanted to see how effed my bearing where.
They're ok, thankfully, but I did find some RUST!! Most bike aren't lubed for shit from the factory, and this bike is no exception....






Dammit. Atleast the bearings spin fine....
So then I greased those spacers up with some marine grease and attempted to stick them back into the sprocket hub.
It's a tight fit! What the hell?! I had to tap them in with a mallet kind of hard!!! This seems really weird. The spacers have always slid in and out for every bike I've had, including another KTM.
Is that what everybody else has to do??!!
This means that for the next tire change, I'm going to have to go through all this crap again!!
It's such a tight fit, I'll have to struggle to get the spacers out again (even if I lubed them up)...for rust cleaning/bearing checking and re-lubing.
This is how I feel right now:

thorinoakenshield screwed with this post 02-24-2013 at 07:24 PM
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Old 02-24-2013, 07:52 PM   #7472
Head2Wind
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Joined: Mar 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dad2bike View Post
I spent last night comparing the fork inners between my 2003 525EXC & my 690R. I'm so very happy with the plushness of my 525 forks.

1st thing I find out, the cartridge is smaller on the 690. Whoops. I guess this will not be a direct copy of the shim stacks. It took me up until late last night to figure out how the 2 different diameter stacks compared. Got It!
I found I can closely match my 525 shim stack functions with all the existing shims in the 690.

Other items to be figured out. My 525 uses .48 springs. The 690 .52 stock. I will give my old set 0f .48 from my 950 a run for a bit.

Next difference is the oil level. Hmmm, the 690 had 115mm, the 525 is 140mm. Any thoughts on a good starting point? I was thinking of starting at 120mm.
The research I have done so far and the very limited information available leads me to believe that the 690 stock springs are too soft for me (240 lb advanced rider) and the at the very least the forks are over damped for fast compression. So...from what I understand of suspensions: If the spring is too soft and the damping is too high, then the forks will feel harsh. If you go UP with spring rates, increase float slightly, soften high speed compression and progressively reduce bottoming resistance reduce the harshness at the limits of travel. I have been tending to start with 110mm air gap and add oil to get the best bottoming resistance, with the intention to work up to the best air gap to help reduce the progressive spring rate at max compression travel. I can state with a great level of assurance... my point of view on this is purely my opinion and is only based from learning and applying to my bikes. This tool has been a invaluable tool: http://www.shimrestackor.com/

Does anyone out there have a inventory of the shims in the different years of the forks and shocks that they would be willing to share?

EDIT: Oh, and as a side note, I have to say that the Factory rally bike that I rode (thanks Steve) before I got my 690 was one of the things that led me to really really want one of these bikes. The factory race suspension is SO AMAZING on fast stutter bumps. The faster the bike is ridden, the better it gets and it REALLY likes it when you are on the power through all types of corners, just CLAMPS the bike to the earth. freaking amazing. HOWEVER... the "public" version of the 690 suspension is very much NOT what the rally bike is.... the next HOWEVER is I hope that I can manage to get the WP suspenders close to the factory stuff...
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Head2Wind screwed with this post 02-24-2013 at 08:05 PM
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Old 02-24-2013, 08:49 PM   #7473
CanadianX
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Anyone know if the KTM Powerparts rad protection fits a 2012?
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Old 02-24-2013, 08:59 PM   #7474
dad2bike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Head2Wind View Post
The research I have done so far and the very limited information available leads me to believe that the 690 stock springs are too soft for me (240 lb advanced rider) and the at the very least the forks are over damped for fast compression. So...from what I understand of suspensions: If the spring is too soft and the damping is too high, then the forks will feel harsh. If you go UP with spring rates, increase float slightly, soften high speed compression and progressively reduce bottoming resistance reduce the harshness at the limits of travel. I have been tending to start with 110mm air gap and add oil to get the best bottoming resistance, with the intention to work up to the best air gap to help reduce the progressive spring rate at max compression travel. I can state with a great level of assurance... my point of view on this is purely my opinion and is only based from learning and applying to my bikes. This tool has been a invaluable tool: http://www.shimrestackor.com/

Does anyone out there have a inventory of the shims in the different years of the forks and shocks that they would be willing to share?

EDIT: Oh, and as a side note, I have to say that the Factory rally bike that I rode (thanks Steve) before I got my 690 was one of the things that led me to really really want one of these bikes. The factory race suspension is SO AMAZING on fast stutter bumps. The faster the bike is ridden, the better it gets and it REALLY likes it when you are on the power through all types of corners, just CLAMPS the bike to the earth. freaking amazing. HOWEVER... the "public" version of the 690 suspension is very much NOT what the rally bike is.... the next HOWEVER is I hope that I can manage to get the WP suspenders close to the factory stuff...
That link looks great. I'll have to look at it more.
As far as my forks go I came up with a stack using all the existing shims. Resorting the deck and removing a bunch. Sounds like what I did accomplishes what you noted. I did start with the .48 springs and 120 mm oil level. They felt great yesterday. I am considering going back to the .52 spring. I'll know more after I get the rear setup. The bike is so imbalanced now it is scary.

My rear shock is just plain foul. I can barely move the rear end. I pushed on a friends back end and it felt very much like my 525. I have my shock off and it will be gone thru and softened up this week.
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Old 02-24-2013, 09:55 PM   #7475
Head2Wind
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A snipet from the restacker.com site regarding dance between spring selection and associated damping:

Summary

Through tuning of the compression and rebound damping both the soft and stiff spring setups can be made to produce identical bump travel and nearly identical suspension response times. Soft springs require heavy compression damping and light rebound damping. At the limit, soft springs are unable to produce the wheel acceleration rates needed in the rebound stroke to keep the suspension from packing.

Stiff springs with light compression and heavy rebound damping produce the fastest suspension response and the plushest ride. The trick in setting up a motorcycle suspension is to find the stiffest possible spring that still uses all of the suspension travel for the speeds and terrain that you ride. For a trail setup at low speed a light spring will be needed to insure the suspension uses all of the travel. At the higher bike speeds of a desert suspension setup a stiffer spring is needed to keep the suspension from bottoming.

EDIT: i keep doing this.... :) the working setup that I have in my 950 ADV includes a set of .60s and a complete rework of all shim stacks, hand blended transfer ports, 1/8" top drilled the spring guides, 1/8" drilled bottoming cups, no mid valve free float(some suspension shops drill a bleed hole through the valve piston), doubled drilled base compression valve holder, back relieved stack holders... Thinking that I am going to try this recipe on the 690, adjusted for weight and give it a try
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Old 02-25-2013, 01:15 AM   #7476
Albie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thorinoakenshield View Post
What's the deal with the rear wheel spacers on the sprocket side?
I had this problem before, and I kind of ignored it. Now, I'm chaning my rear tire again and I was determined to remove the leftmost spacer.
What a pain in the ass! I had to bang it out with a screwdriver and aluminum rod. I marred the spacer all up to holy hell!!



Whoops....not a big deal,really.....


Why was I so determined? I wanted to see how effed my bearing where.
They're ok, thankfully, but I did find some RUST!! Most bike aren't lubed for shit from the factory, and this bike is no exception....






Dammit. Atleast the bearings spin fine....
So then I greased those spacers up with some marine grease and attempted to stick them back into the sprocket hub.
It's a tight fit! What the hell?! I had to tap them in with a mallet kind of hard!!! This seems really weird. The spacers have always slid in and out for every bike I've had, including another KTM.
Is that what everybody else has to do??!!
This means that for the next tire change, I'm going to have to go through all this crap again!!
It's such a tight fit, I'll have to struggle to get the spacers out again (even if I lubed them up)...for rust cleaning/bearing checking and re-lubing.
This is how I feel right now:
Don't have a problem with the spacer on either my 17" 0r 18" wheels. Hell, it usually falls off just as I'm trying to slide the wheel back in.
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Old 02-25-2013, 04:24 AM   #7477
GezwindeSpoed
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Joined: Jan 2009
Location: The land of the Dutchmen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scholz View Post
any quick fix for movement in tank? bolts are and have always been checked tight. Need to fix before sandblast rally.

It appears the play is in the bottom bolts assy.

I bought rally raid top bolts but didn't use because stock ones fit better.

Thanks!
Isolation tape around the inserts and tape around the metal part as tight as you can-> no movement
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Old 02-25-2013, 05:23 AM   #7478
Bumpaman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GezwindeSpoed View Post
Isolation tape around the inserts and tape around the metal part as tight as you can-> no movement
What is isolation tape?
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Old 02-25-2013, 05:31 AM   #7479
MeinMotorrad
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Electrical tape.
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Old 02-25-2013, 06:08 AM   #7480
thorinoakenshield
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Albie View Post
Don't have a problem with the spacer on either my 17" 0r 18" wheels. Hell, it usually falls off just as I'm trying to slide the wheel back in.
if my experience is contrary to what everybody else is experiencing, maybe i should make a warranty claim?

i know stuck spacers are not uncommon, but the bike is less than a year old.
and putting them back in? i had to bang them back in. wtf?!??!
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Old 02-25-2013, 06:48 AM   #7481
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianX View Post
Anyone know if the KTM Powerparts rad protection fits a 2012?
Yes. I have it on my 2012 R.
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Old 02-25-2013, 06:59 AM   #7482
CanadianX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snakepilot View Post
Yes. I have it on my 2012 R.
Great, thanks snakepilot.
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Old 02-25-2013, 07:33 AM   #7483
Seth S
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Head2Wind View Post
EDIT: Oh, and as a side note, I have to say that the Factory rally bike that I rode (thanks Steve) before I got my 690 was one of the things that led me to really really want one of these bikes. The factory race suspension is SO AMAZING on fast stutter bumps. The faster the bike is ridden, the better it gets and it REALLY likes it when you are on the power through all types of corners, just CLAMPS the bike to the earth. freaking amazing. HOWEVER... the "public" version of the 690 suspension is very much NOT what the rally bike is.... the next HOWEVER is I hope that I can manage to get the WP suspenders close to the factory stuff...

I think there are several of us who fell in love with the factory rally bike through actually riding it or just seeing it in action...who now want something similar in the normal version. I think the suspension that the factory bike starts with is just better out of the box and more tuneable. The rear shock is different as are the forks and even the frame is different on that bike. The closest out of the box is probably a set of SXS forks and maybe an Ohlins shock ...if there is one that fits the frame...probably a $4000 package before tuning.
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Old 02-25-2013, 08:00 AM   #7484
Noyah
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Old 02-25-2013, 08:13 AM   #7485
MeinMotorrad
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Location: Between Velez Rubio and Huercal Overa, Spain.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thorinoakenshield View Post
What's the deal with the rear wheel spacers on the sprocket side?
I had this problem before, and I kind of ignored it. Now, I'm chaning my rear tire again and I was determined to remove the leftmost spacer.
What a pain in the ass! I had to bang it out with a screwdriver and aluminum rod. I marred the spacer all up to holy hell!!

Why was I so determined? I wanted to see how effed my bearing where.
They're ok, thankfully, but I did find some RUST!! Most bike aren't lubed for shit from the factory, and this bike is no exception....



Dammit. Atleast the bearings spin fine....
So then I greased those spacers up with some marine grease and attempted to stick them back into the sprocket hub.
It's a tight fit! What the hell?! I had to tap them in with a mallet kind of hard!!! This seems really weird. The spacers have always slid in and out for every bike I've had, including another KTM.
Is that what everybody else has to do??!!
This means that for the next tire change, I'm going to have to go through all this crap again!!
It's such a tight fit, I'll have to struggle to get the spacers out again (even if I lubed them up)...for rust cleaning/bearing checking and re-lubing.
This is how I feel right now:
Exactly the same as my 2012. I was going to try to prise them out but didn't bother in the end. I've got that rust too. I just greased the hell out of everything and put it back together. I'll check every time I change tyres and again near the end of the warranty period. If it's not good then KTM can fix it

There's hardly any grease on the front wheel either.
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