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Old 02-02-2013, 07:33 PM   #16
jub jub OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donkey Hotey View Post
The older you get, the faster you were.

I had a YZ465 as well. Yeah, it was fast. No, it wasn't THAT fast. I have a well respected friend who regularly raced intermediate class in west coast Grand Prixs before moving away a couple of years ago. He reassured me that a modern 450 four stroke would kick a CR500s ass.

Edit: hell, here he is actually addressing this very issue--Nate Evans, partway down the page:
http://www.dirtrider.com/tests/141_0701_size_matters/

A YZ465 would easily get beaten. Mine was on the Storz dyno just before I bought it and it put out a peak of just a bit over 40 horsepower.


That's fucking depressing. I would have bet big money on a two stroke anyday . I!m bummed! P
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Old 02-02-2013, 07:41 PM   #17
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I have to imagine Joe Schmoe will be quicker on a 4t but a rider worth his salt on a CR/KX500 should come out on top. Add modern suspension/frame and the gap widens.

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Old 02-02-2013, 07:54 PM   #18
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both have around 60HP nowadays.......the 4 strokes caught up
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Old 02-02-2013, 08:57 PM   #19
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Apples and oranges. The MX tracks of old were rougher and the moto's were 45 minutes plus 2 laps, today they are cleaner and 30 minute moto's. Back in the 70's a 450 2 stroke used the same chassis as a 250 and typically weighed 220 lbs. Newer bikes weigh 25 lbs more and have more weight up high due to the water cooling. If I was to spend $10K on a race bike I would choose a 501 Maico (and race vintage) over a 450 KTM (for old timers) any day of the week.
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Old 02-02-2013, 09:18 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by 68deluxe View Post
Apples and oranges. The MX tracks of old were rougher and the moto's were 45 minutes plus 2 laps, today they are cleaner and 30 minute moto's. Back in the 70's a 450 2 stroke used the same chassis as a 250 and typically weighed 220 lbs. Newer bikes weigh 25 lbs more and have more weight up high due to the water cooling. If I was to spend $10K on a race bike I would choose a 501 Maico (and race vintage) over a 450 KTM (for old timers) any day of the week.
I'm with you. Two stroke HP in a modern chassis = win,win! I just can't see how a four banger can out perform a two smoke of yester_year!


But then again, I guess the only way of knowing for sure is to ride one.
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Old 02-02-2013, 09:21 PM   #21
Donkey Hotey
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Originally Posted by 68deluxe View Post
If I was to spend $10K on a race bike I would choose a 501 Maico (and race vintage) over a 450 KTM (for old timers) any day of the week.
ATK 700

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=541361

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Old 02-02-2013, 09:37 PM   #22
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Have to remember than when most of us rode them, we were younger and mono-shock suspension just came out. So everything we rode felt insanely fast.

The only bike that's made me feel similar to that is the KTM 450. I've never had the throttle pinned, that's how scary it was.

But I suck at riding, so who knows, really.
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Old 02-02-2013, 09:48 PM   #23
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After watching the video, I will say that two strokes just sound......awesome!

Watching the super cross races just makes me feel that something is missing. There is no exhaust sound like in the days of yesteryear! There is a dB limit on the exhaust that is little more than a baby crying....like 85dB or something like that. Fuck that. I want the good old days of braaaaaaaaaap....braaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaP....braaaaaaaa aaaaaaap
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Old 02-02-2013, 09:49 PM   #24
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Go fart in the bathtub, and quit posting.
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Old 02-02-2013, 10:04 PM   #25
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Motocross Action Magazine has done a couple of articles on this fairly recently. The open class 2 smoke is faster on the start, but is much more difficult to ride quickly for the whole pace of a moto. The 4 stroke is easier to control, thus faster over the course of a moto. The 2 stroke basically wore the rider out trying to keep the pace.

I think its cool that most of the local race series are now allowing 250 2 strokes to race with the 250 4 strokes. My buddy went from a 450 back to an old KX250 and still won the state Vet Pro championship. He's now on a '12 KTM 250SX, and he's killing it still with the Vet's and is usually top 10 if not top 5 in the 250 Pro class. Of course, most of it has to do with the rider's ability.

I am looking for a clean 250 2 stroke for my son, so I can have 1 of each!

I would love to have the coin to spend on a Service Honda 500. It is the CR 500 motor stuffed in a modern 250F chassis.

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Old 02-02-2013, 10:10 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Bender View Post
Go fart in the bathtub, and quit posting.
So, you find fart bubbles amusing, do you? I'll send you a video.
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Old 02-03-2013, 08:39 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedster View Post
Motocross Action Magazine has done a couple of articles on this fairly recently. The open class 2 smoke is faster on the start, but is much more difficult to ride quickly for the whole pace of a moto. The 4 stroke is easier to control, thus faster over the course of a moto. The 2 stroke basically wore the rider out trying to keep the pace.

I think its cool that most of the local race series are now allowing 250 2 strokes to race with the 250 4 strokes. My buddy went from a 450 back to an old KX250 and still won the state Vet Pro championship. He's now on a '12 KTM 250SX, and he's killing it still with the Vet's and is usually top 10 if not top 5 in the 250 Pro class. Of course, most of it has to do with the rider's ability.

I am looking for a clean 250 2 stroke for my son, so I can have 1 of each!

I would love to have the coin to spend on a Service Honda 500. It is the CR 500 motor stuffed in a modern 250F chassis.

Speedster
I was wondering where this went.

Have you thought about a new YZ250 or a KTM. Still making the two smokes!
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Old 02-25-2013, 11:36 AM   #28
jar944
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450 4Ts are easier to ride, weigh the same and put the power down better.

All the power in the world is useless if you cant use it, and also the reason the 250 4Ts have almost identical lap rimes.

Now in something like hill climbing, where power matters... the 500cc 2t is still the one to beat.
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