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Old 03-04-2013, 10:49 AM   #3421
Bengt Phorks
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Joined: Sep 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Notaduke View Post
After fighting mightily with the centre stand bolt removal on my Multistrada (red loctite...only way to cleanly remove them is to heat with a torch), I would like to know how difficult it is to remove the c/s bolt if you use red locktite and 60 Nm torque? I also note that the KTM manual suggests red loctite for the rear sprocket bolts, which scares me even more. How difficult is it to remove the front and rear sprocket bolts when red locktite is used?
I only torque the c/s bolt to 30 ft/lbs and use Loctite 242 or grade C.
The bolt is not hidden and shearing the head off will cause major repair issues. The c/s is on a spline and the bolt and spring washer only keep the sprocket snug against the shaft seal.
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Old 03-04-2013, 04:36 PM   #3422
Nomad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooknup View Post
I have the same bike and that is what I am looking for. Are those the expedition series bags or Rolie series?
they're the rolies. you have to order wolfman's saddlebag mount for them to work like I have them in the picture. awesome system though!
http://wolfmanluggage.com/index.cfm?...product_id=122

I have a large on top and med on the sides but they fit snug. it's recommended to use either 3 med or a med/small combo but if you think you'll carry a lot, go with the large on top. comes out to about 29L total capacity.
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Old 03-04-2013, 05:08 PM   #3423
MJG2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bengt Phorks View Post
I only torque the c/s bolt to 30 ft/lbs and use Loctite 242 or grade C.
The bolt is not hidden and shearing the head off will cause major repair issues. The c/s is on a spline and the bolt and spring washer only keep the sprocket snug against the shaft seal.

thanks
I'll use a little blue- med strength

but I think I will go with the 44 ft lb spec in manual
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Old 03-05-2013, 04:02 PM   #3424
team ftb
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airbox critique

Quote:
Originally Posted by team ftb View Post
Colemanfu I have the same concerns. Does anybody have any insight on airbox changes on the 500 from previous generation KTM big bores? Have there been any improvements that that increase its ability in watercrossings? I rode a 525 for years and was constantly disappointed with its ability to ford deep water. I drowned it constantly, despite breather hoses being routed up high and down low w/T fittings, weather stripping between seat and rear fender, etc.



Small creek crossings were no issues but long deep crossings would end up getting only halfway across before ingesting a crankcase full of water. My Japanese one piece airboxes never had issues however the multi piece airbox on the KTM slurped fluids. it got so bad than anything near waist deep I would resort to this method if possible.



and that is just embarrassing for a hard core dirt bike.


I got to really envy the Husaberg and 690 airboxes in the traditional gas tank positions, but in reality my Japanese one piece airboxes never drowned out until the tank went under water. Have any updates on airbox design to increase water crossings been adapted into the new 500 model?

Dirty in All - Do you have any info on the water sock? I assume this is different from the plastic cover used for cleaning the bike?




Bringing this post back from the past to add some beta.

Took a curious look at the airbox on the new 500 and there's good and bad from a waterproofing perspective.

The good:

An easier access to the filter with the huge 3 inch lip on the RFS bikes gone. Sometimes it felt like you were a chimp wrestling a coconut inside a small hole inside a tree trunk when installing the filter on the RFS bikes. New on the 500 is a lot easier access to install and run your fingers around the perimeter of the filter to guarantee a thorough seal. Nice.







When I rode a 525 it was common practice to put some weather stripping or closed cell foam between the back of the seat and top of the rear fender to keep mud and water kicked up by the rear wheel from running down the fender and straight into the airbox. On the new 500 the seat has these ridges molded into the base to assist in funneling water.





The ridges funnel the water into these molded in channels, the channels direct the water outside of the airbox and down the inner rear fender onto the ground. Very nice.






The bad:

Sadly not all is peaches and cream. On the RFS bikes the bottom of the airbox has a drain that allowed any water inside the airbox to drain out. KTM used their noggin on this drain and installed an attempt at a one way barrier that allowed water to drain out yet slow down the egress of watering entering the airbox up through the drain. Nice. Drum roll please. The 500 has a plain ole hole in the bottom of the airbox.



No one way valve, traps or anything to slow it down.





They did design it with enough plastic shielding to keep splashes from entering the hole and protected it as best as possible behind the shock.








but if you are running through much more than two feet deep for any distance it could result in water getting in. It should present no problems as long as you can keep decent momentum up enough to create a bow wake and resulting channel of shallower water. Or if the crossings are short enough. However its dirt biking, Enduro riding and at times generally thrashing about through awkward situations and at times we lose momentum, stall, or the terrain just keeps us from much momentum. hell I'm human and make mistakes.

See them rocks visible above the water and underneath, mortals can't keep a nice wake going across the distance of these crossings when its nothing but rocks from cantaloupe size to large TV size. Already endo'd in a river crossing earlier in the day trying to keep momentum and slammed a large rock that took me swimming



The nice high airbox of the 690 and 950 worked wonders, the low airbox of the 525 (same location as the 500) failed. its these type of crossings that give me concern.

Looking over the side panels of the bike you can see these openings from the rear.





the bottom of these openings are located here on the right side:





and here on the left side:





Here's the gap from inside the airbox on the left side, looking down past the filter:




You can see the day light. Good thing is once again if you carry momentum you should be safe. Dab, stall, slow too much, and water will get in.

Why a simple one piece airbox with the air intake being from just below the seat is not produced I don't know. I'm not a designer so maybe I'm missing something.

I will be experimenting with duct tape and silicone a bit to see if i can come up with anything to help me get across the long deep crossings.
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Old 03-06-2013, 01:19 PM   #3425
Johnnyktm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by team ftb View Post
Bringing this post back from the past to add some beta.
Thanks a lot for the extraordinary contributions about this issue that you have made in this and past posts! I do not usually have to cross rivers, but it's good to know our bikes' capabilities

By the way: It's nice to see a bike so new and shiny... I'm sure that in some months things will change...
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Old 03-06-2013, 08:50 PM   #3426
team ftb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnyktm View Post
Thanks a lot for the extraordinary contributions about this issue that you have made in this and past posts! I do not usually have to cross rivers, but it's good to know our bikes' capabilities

By the way: It's nice to see a bike so new and shiny... I'm sure that in some months things will change...
Sadly its gonna be shiny for longer than I would like as the arm is currently in a few pieces it should not be and I won't be offroad riding for a bit yet.

Waterproof testing will have to wait until i get it shipped back to Thailand and monsoon season.
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Old 03-07-2013, 05:22 AM   #3427
Johnnyktm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by team ftb View Post
Sadly its gonna be shiny for longer than I would like as the arm is currently in a few pieces it should not be and I won't be offroad riding for a bit yet.

Waterproof testing will have to wait until i get it shipped back to Thailand and monsoon season.
Wow! I had no idea about your broken arm... take your time to heal it, so that you can properly test the waterproofing of this air filter box ;-)
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:58 PM   #3428
team ftb
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Definitly trying to be patient with my arm but with an almost new bike beckoning, restraint is not an easy task.

So I've got the bike desmogged and holes plugged, plus the Golan filter installed. No gunk visible on my stock fuel filter in the quick release.

My Golan out of the box was barely finger tight so make sure the two halves are properly snugged together before installing. The engraved direction arrow on the Golan I needed help from someone else to ID as my eyesight is crap. I went ahead and used a Sharpie to make a more visible indication of fuel flow direction.



A few wraps of electrical tape around the filter as insurance against unscrewing and it also provides a bit of friction defence if it comes in contact with other cables, lines, etc.

I'm planning on a tank upgrade so the final lay out of the fuel hoses is not determined yet. When mounting the Golan, quick release on the stock hoses, with a stock tank things were a bit crowded. I did not want to cut any of the stock fuel lines for this install since I may want them for my larger tank install. I have seen posts of people pinching and deforming the O-rings on the quick release with usage. I removed the fuel hose from the bottom of the tank and fuel did not come pouring out as I expected. To make things a bit simpler I just omitted the quick release and installed the Golan.





Much cleaner, simpler, and doing without the quick release and extra two hose clamps reduces the chances for leaks and oring failures some have experienced. I understand the logic behind the quick release but if it creates issues why have it? I'm thinking I can just use my tool kit vice grips to close the fuel line removed upstream of the Golan if I remove the tank.

Just got my ECU back in the mail from being reflashed with the European competition map. Not huge differences in terms of outright performance but it does run crisper, start easier etc.
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Old 03-07-2013, 04:46 PM   #3429
bill1960
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FTB

A piece of bicycle tube also works very well as a dust seal/protector for the Golan.

On my 500xcw, the upper oem FI hose was rubbing in several places in its stock configuration.
You need to remove the tank to see it as its near where it connects to the throttle body.
I ran some protective sheathing over mine.
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:28 PM   #3430
team ftb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bill1960 View Post
FTB

A piece of bicycle tube also works very well as a dust seal/protector for the Golan.

On my 500xcw, the upper oem FI hose was rubbing in several places in its stock configuration.
You need to remove the tank to see it as its near where it connects to the throttle body.
I ran some protective sheathing over mine.
Good call on the bicycle inner tube. Bill what did you source for the fuel line sheathing? My fuel line was only rubbing on the cables but with a larger tank we'll see how the fuel line routing changes.

After the re-mapping of the ECU I took the bike out for a decent spin today. I rode a 525 (570 piston, Hotcams, unshrouded head, oversize valves, etc.) for years and the two bikes have completely different motors. The lighter crank weight of the 500 is really noticeable, it picks up RPM's a lot quicker than the built 525. It'll be good fun, however off the bottom it lacks the tractor capability of the 525 which is really nice in slow technical slogging situations. Having FI I was expecting unmatched responsiveness from the motor. The throttle response in neutral is a lot more quicker than the 525's carb despite my forever fiddling with the jetting, accelerator pump etc. The fI is unmatched in this perspective. However if riding along in low RPM's if the throttle is yanked open it responds, but not cleanly for almost a full second. It pulls, but not nice and linearly like the 525. The 500 seems to pull immediately but (relatively) timidly for almost a second, then the power ramps up strong. I thought this was just down to the EXC mapping but now with the competition map installed the trait is still there. Maybe my expectation of FI is too high but it responds a bit like the 350 XCFW I rode, nothing off the bottom but responds wonderful once its got a few RPM's built up. It feels more to me like a 450 lite than a true large bore. Anyone else feel the same sensation? The power also goes flat a LOT sooner than my built 570. The power feels all midrange without a bunch up high or down low.

The bikes steers lightening quick compared to my 525 with 17 degree Topar clamps, very nice. The downside of this is it has head-shake (even with 115mm sag and triple clamps showing 1 line of fork tube) that reminds me of my mid 90's 2 stroke motocrossers. Has anyone done any high speed rough fireroading on the bike? How is it through 50+ mph chop?
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Old 03-08-2013, 04:36 AM   #3431
Johnnyktm
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Very comprehensive review of the 500's engine performance!

And thanks for the tips about the golan filter!
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Old 03-08-2013, 05:14 AM   #3432
woodzrider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by team ftb View Post
Good call on the bicycle inner tube. Bill what did you source for the fuel line sheathing? My fuel line was only rubbing on the cables but with a larger tank we'll see how the fuel line routing changes.

After the re-mapping of the ECU I took the bike out for a decent spin today. I rode a 525 (570 piston, Hotcams, unshrouded head, oversize valves, etc.) for years and the two bikes have completely different motors. The lighter crank weight of the 500 is really noticeable, it picks up RPM's a lot quicker than the built 525. It'll be good fun, however off the bottom it lacks the tractor capability of the 525 which is really nice in slow technical slogging situations. Having FI I was expecting unmatched responsiveness from the motor. The throttle response in neutral is a lot more quicker than the 525's carb despite my forever fiddling with the jetting, accelerator pump etc. The fI is unmatched in this perspective. However if riding along in low RPM's if the throttle is yanked open it responds, but not cleanly for almost a full second. It pulls, but not nice and linearly like the 525. The 500 seems to pull immediately but (relatively) timidly for almost a second, then the power ramps up strong. I thought this was just down to the EXC mapping but now with the competition map installed the trait is still there. Maybe my expectation of FI is too high but it responds a bit like the 350 XCFW I rode, nothing off the bottom but responds wonderful once its got a few RPM's built up. It feels more to me like a 450 lite than a true large bore. Anyone else feel the same sensation? The power also goes flat a LOT sooner than my built 570. The power feels all midrange without a bunch up high or down low.

The bikes steers lightening quick compared to my 525 with 17 degree Topar clamps, very nice. The downside of this is it has head-shake (even with 115mm sag and triple clamps showing 1 line of fork tube) that reminds me of my mid 90's 2 stroke motocrossers. Has anyone done any high speed rough fireroading on the bike? How is it through 50+ mph chop?
My XC-W does not have the hesitation/stumble you speak of. It pulls cleanly and hard from idle unless I'm about 2 gears too high in a given situation. The exc'x also have very high gearing compared to the xc-w. I realize i'm posting in the exc thread, but these are the reasons I chose the xc-w over the exc! This bike has re-lit the off-roading flame for me.
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Old 03-08-2013, 09:57 AM   #3433
wdbasham3
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2012 KTM 500 EXC Folding Kickstand Issue Solved

I am the lucky owner of a new 500 EXC. I’ve always been a Honda guy, but when it came time to buy a new bike Honda they didn’t have a bike in the niche I was looking for (90% dirt, 10% street). Sorry Honda! Anyhoot, so since I’m new to KTM’s, I can’t help but admiring many of the features of this great bike. I also can’t help but wondering what the heck the engineers were thinking when designing some of these features.
One of my biggest pet peeves, aside from the backfiring which I now fixed, is the kickstand. Now, there’s nothing simple I can do to fix the plastic foot that loves to break off, but I can and have fixed the issue where the kickstand likes to help itself rearward 3”-4” toward the folded position as soon as you take the weight off of it, setting you, a friend, or family member up to drop your bike onto its side and onto themselves. Here is a pic of the stock kickstand as soon as you take the weight off.


As you may or may not know, its because there is a rearward tension being exerted on it by the retainer springs as the curved spring bracket winds around the back side of the kickstand’s pivot bolt bushing. Here is a close up of the stock mechanism.


To eliminate the rearward pull, the fix is a simple $1.00 replacement bolt.
1) Find yourself a replacement kickstand pivot bolt. The OEM bolt is a M8x26 Torx 40 Countersunk bolt. What you need is an M8x20 Countersunk bolt. I found one at Fastenal with an Allen head. It was made by FKE and was rated 10.9. They may also come zinc plated, but I was in a hurry and bought a black one. Here is a pic of its slightly shorter brother.

Notice in the picture below, the length of the replacement bolt is roughly the same length as the stock bolt with the bushing on. The reason you can’t use the stock bolt without the bushing is that there is an unthreaded shoulder (grip) right below the bolt head underneath the bushing. This unthreaded part hits the frame threads before the bolt head tightens down. You can see the unthreaded section peeking from under the bushing in the pic below. There’s plenty of frame thread. I was not so lucky to receive a different bolt in my tool kit. I only received an identical bolt to the one i am replacing. You can even get away with an M8x25 I believe, but its not necessary.

2) OK, so now that you have the bolt, go ahead and have a friend hold up the bike, or prop it up somehow so that you can fold up the kickstand. This releases tension on the springs to a point that the kickstand is easier to work on. Go ahead and remove the stock bolt and bushing and place in storage as you will not need either again.
3) Replace the bolt with the M8x20 and tighten down. You are now done. When now lowering the kickstand into its fully open position, the spring tension is slightly forward of the axis of the pivot bolt, thereby exerting the slightest forward force on the kickstand and keeping it firmly opened and planted against the stop bolt below the footpeg. Notice the slight shadow under the kickstand foot to show that it is staying down of its own accord! Note that this “fix” in no way affects the ability of the springs to hold the kickstand in the fully closed/folded position. Good luck!






wdbasham3 screwed with this post 03-08-2013 at 10:24 PM Reason: Added note regarding lack of replacement bolt in my tool kit.
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Old 03-08-2013, 10:24 AM   #3434
SteveO
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Wicked Rust removal

Generally Rust is not an issue on our dirt bikes, but it could be on the older model bikes. I made a little video showing how I used Electrolysis to remove rust from my brake calipers...

I recommend changing the video settings to HD for a better picture






If your interested in more information about rust, you can see more at my webpage: http://www.hunt4steve.com/saturn/brakes
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Old 03-08-2013, 10:32 AM   #3435
Stifdickerson2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdbasham3 View Post
I am the lucky owner of a new 500 EXC. I’ve always been a Honda guy, but when it came time to buy a new bike Honda they didn’t have a bike in the niche I was looking for (90% dirt, 10% street). Sorry Honda! Anyhoot, so since I’m new to KTM’s, I can’t help but admiring many of the features of this great bike. I also can’t help but wondering what the heck the engineers were thinking when designing some of these features.
One of my biggest pet peeves, aside from the backfiring which I now fixed, is the kickstand. Now, there’s nothing simple I can do to fix the plastic foot that loves to break off, but I can and have fixed the issue where the kickstand likes to help itself rearward 3”-4” toward the folded position as soon as you take the weight off of it, setting you, a friend, or family member up to drop your bike onto its side and onto themselves. Here is a pic of the stock kickstand as soon as you take the weight off.


As you may or may not know, its because there is a rearward tension being exerted on it by the retainer springs as the curved spring bracket winds around the back side of the kickstand’s pivot bolt bushing. Here is a close up of the stock mechanism.


To eliminate the rearward pull, the fix is a simple $1.00 replacement bolt.
1) Find yourself a replacement kickstand pivot bolt. The OEM bolt is a M8x26 Torx 40 Countersunk bolt. What you need is an M8x20 Countersunk bolt. I found one at Fastenal with an Allen head. It was made by FKE and was rated 10.9. They may also come zinc plated, but I was in a hurry and bought a black one. Here is a pic of its slightly shorter brother.

Notice in the picture below, the length of the replacement bolt is roughly the same length as the stock bolt with the bushing on. The reason you can’t use the stock bolt without the bushing is that there is an unthreaded shoulder (grip) right below the bolt head underneath the bushing. This unthreaded part hits the frame threads before the bolt head tightens down. You can see the unthreaded section peeking from under the bushing in the pic below. There’s plenty of frame thread. You can even get away with an M8x25 I believe, but its not necessary.

2) OK, so now that you have the bolt, go ahead and have a friend hold up the bike, or prop it up somehow so that you can fold up the kickstand. This releases tension on the springs to a point that the kickstand is easier to work on. Go ahead and remove the stock bolt and bushing and place in storage as you will not need either again.
3) Replace the bolt with the M8x20 and tighten down. You are now done. When now lowering the kickstand into its fully open position, the spring tension is slightly forward of the axis of the pivot bolt, thereby exerting the slightest forward force on the kickstand and keeping it firmly opened and planted against the stop bolt below the footpeg. Notice the slight shadow under the kickstand foot to show that it is staying down of its own accord! Note that this “fix” in no way affects the ability of the springs to hold the kickstand in the fully closed/folded position. Good luck!





the reason for that design is for dual sport legalities, not exactly sure of the laws pertaining to it but that is the reason for it. there should have been a bolt in your briefcase to fix that issue, my 2012 came with one. not sure if the 13's had it or not. mine was already taken care of when the bike was delivered. But the extension that was removed was in the bag, my cousins Aprilia is the same way. but he has not fixed it and drops it all the time. not the sharpest tool in the shed but I get a kick out of watching beat the hell out of his nice bike.
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