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Old 11-03-2012, 12:45 PM   #16
JerryH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortez View Post
That might not be completely true, considering the very low power of their
2 stroke engine.

Every cheapo chinese 4 stroke 50cc scooter I've ridden was faster then my
Tomos SPRINT, and the rated power of those 4 strokes is 20-30% higher.

The Sprint won't do over 35mph, and I've seen anywhere from 40 to 45
indicated on various chinese (gy6) scoots.
50cc scooter engines are tuned to go as fast as possible without self destructing. The liquid cooled Honda Met and Ruckus top out at about 40 mph. A moped engine could easily be made to go that fast by the factory, but they would no longer be legal mopeds, which must have a top speed of no more than 30 mph. Unlike some people think, there is no "governor" on a moped engine that makes it slow. It is designed that way, so as to make it difficult and expensive to modify to go faster. But there is a whole moped subculture out there pretty much dedicated to doing just that. A 2 stroke is easily modified, a 4 stroke isn't. And still you have to modify almost every part of a 2 stroke moped engine to make it fast. Unfortunately many people get carried away, and wind up scattering their expensive parts all over the road.
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Old 11-04-2012, 02:59 AM   #17
Cortez
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Um, yeah, I know.. I was just stating that the Tomos mopeds are around
2hp while most modern 4 stroke scooter engines are usually more powerful
so going 4 stroke (stock vs stock) on a Tomos would not make it slower.

I for one would buy one in a heart beat with a 4 stroke engine and the
2 speed auto.
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Old 11-05-2012, 08:23 PM   #18
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The main problem is that probably 90% of Tomos moped buyers modify them, and there is a large aftermarket built around supplying performance parts for 2 stroke mopeds. It is far more difficult to get more power out of a 4 stroke.

Way back in '05 I bought a Yamaha Zuma 50 2 stroke. Yamaha recently went to a 4 stroke with the Zuma. The 2 stroke models are in extremely high demand by "tuners" who want to modify them. The dealer I bought it from called me a few months ago, wanting to know if I still had it, and if I wanted to sell it (I sold it years ago) They are getting a lot of calls from people looking for the 2 stroke Zuma. Used ones on Craigslist sell for more than they sold for new.

I leave bikes stock for reliability, and if I need or want to go faster, I get a bigger bike. I do hot rod older American cars though, so I can see the attraction.
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Old 11-06-2012, 01:02 AM   #19
Cortez
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Might also be true.. but you can't ride a modified moped on the streets here
for more then a day or two before you get a nasty fine and in Italy they'll even
take the bike away from you.

The fine here would be 1/3 the price of a basic Tomos moped.
In Slovenia it's even worse.

And we're talking just the exhaust, that's more then enough.

If it'll go over 50km/h (30mph more or less), you're screwed
(and they check the top speed when they think it's a tuned bike).

This is especially painful on 50cc scooters (2 stroke) since all of them
will do at least 35-40mph, and some will do 50mph completely stock.
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Old 11-08-2012, 05:15 AM   #20
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Cortez, curious about which 50cc will do 50mph (80kph) stock?

Here in Connecticut US, the no registration limit is 5hp, nothing to do with cc's, and no limit on it's speed.

From the CT DMV:
Motor Driven Cycles: If you have a motor scooter, moped or motorbike having a motor that produces 5 brake horsepower or less (or 3.7 kW or less) and a seat height of at least 26 inches, you may operate it on the roadway without registering it. However, you must have a valid motor vehicle operator’s license to operate it, and you may not operate it on any sidewalk, limited access highway or turnpike. If the maximum speed of your cycle is less than the speed limit of the road that you are on, you must operate in the right hand lane available for traffic or upon a usable shoulder on the right side of the road unless you are making a left turn. As of October 1, 2008, these vehicles are referred to as “motor driven cycles.”
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Speedo66 screwed with this post 11-08-2012 at 05:56 AM
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:02 AM   #21
Cortez
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedo66 View Post
Cortez, curious about which 50cc will do 50mph (80kph) stock?
Aprilia SR50, Piaggio NRG, Yamaha Aerox, Yamaha Jog RR, Peugeot
Speedfight, Peugeot Speedfight 2, Peugeot Jetforce C-TECH, Peugeot
Ludix Blaster, Gilera Runner..

There's probably more.
I've ridden most of them over 50mph indicated, they're all rated
between 5 and 6hp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedo66 View Post
Here in Connecticut US, the no registration limit is 5hp, nothing to do with cc's, and no limit on it's speed.
That's great.. we gotta ride around with a restrictor in the CVT (35mph).


One of the reasons I sold my peugeot 50cc and bought the 125cc
scoot.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:49 PM   #22
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I just looked up the 2013 Yamaha Aerox, pretty cool looking, and a water cooled 2 stroke. Nice, but we'll never get it in the US.
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Old 11-08-2012, 05:48 PM   #23
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ahh TOMOS

TOMOS my first bike as Cortez will probably know back in the day in Croatia there was really no option I think 95% of bikers that are my age and Iím 37 started on one of these. What can I say first ride the thrill of opening throttle the sensation of wind in hair heart pumping like crazy and that was only automatic A3 also known as ZICO. Later on bought an APN6 also known as KOZA and I didnít even know how to change gears. Had first crash on that bike broke an arm slide around 20 meters on hot tarmac in my flip-flops short trousers and t shirt those where the days when nobody and I mean nobody was wearing any kind of gear or protection at all. Helmet was something that was considered unnecessary. Crazy when I think of it but by that time it was too late I was already a bike addict. Bought another one from TOMOS line BT50 sweet thing with front disc brake at that time it had modern design. Well that is me hooked on bikes for life all because of TOMOS. I feel sad because it is over although I knew they sell company to Chinese.
Just want to say thank you TOMOS
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:47 AM   #24
Cortez
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedo66 View Post
I just looked up the 2013 Yamaha Aerox, pretty cool looking, and a water cooled 2 stroke. Nice, but we'll never get it in the US.
Yeah, all bikes I mentioned are water cooled 2 strokes.

Slap a Leovince ZX or RR pipe on any of them and they'll do GPS 50mph,
maybe even more.

My Speedfight did 50-51 indicated stock which was 45,6 GPS MPH, still
plenty fast. It did 56mph indicated with Leovince ZX (supposed to bump
the power up from 5hp to 6hp on this bike).

Same pipe on the italian scoots would get you close to 7hp..
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:50 AM   #25
Cortez
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spalato View Post
TOMOS my first bike as Cortez will probably know back in the day in Croatia there was really no option I think 95% of bikers that are my age and Iím 37 started on one of these. What can I say first ride the thrill of opening throttle the sensation of wind in hair heart pumping like crazy and that was only automatic A3 also known as ZICO. Later on bought an APN6 also known as KOZA and I didnít even know how to change gears. Had first crash on that bike broke an arm slide around 20 meters on hot tarmac in my flip-flops short trousers and t shirt those where the days when nobody and I mean nobody was wearing any kind of gear or protection at all. Helmet was something that was considered unnecessary. Crazy when I think of it but by that time it was too late I was already a bike addict. Bought another one from TOMOS line BT50 sweet thing with front disc brake at that time it had modern design. Well that is me hooked on bikes for life all because of TOMOS. I feel sad because it is over although I knew they sell company to Chinese.
Just want to say thank you TOMOS
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Old 03-01-2013, 07:21 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
talked to my local Tomos dealer, who also sells several scooter brands, and he doesn't know for sure what is going on
Update
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Old 03-01-2013, 10:45 PM   #27
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My local scooter dealer who also sells Tomos mopeds has several in stock, and says he can get more. But a reliable source (and dealer) on tomosmopeds.org, a forum for Tomos owners, confirms that production has ended permanently, and they are just selling off existing stock, which they apparently had an abundance of. But if you want a real 2 stroke moped, I would suggest getting one soon. Just like the 2 stroke Stellas, when they are gone, they're gone. I got my Stella just in time, and will probably never part with it. 150cc 2 stroke with a manual shift. How can you beat that? And better yet, it uses vintage Vespa parts, so it can be kept going forever.

Not all 50cc 4 stroke motors are fast. The liquid cooled 50cc Ruckus tops out at a GPS 35-36 mph. It can certainly be modified, but you sacrifice a lot of engine longevity. I rather just have a bigger engine. Nobody is going to make a sophisticated fuel injected liquid cooled moped that does 50 mph. Nobody would buy it for what it would cost, and it would legally be a motorcycle. The Sachs MadAss 50cc even with a multi speed manual transmission tops out at about 30 mph.
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Old 03-09-2013, 01:23 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedo66 View Post
I just looked up the 2013 Yamaha Aerox, pretty cool looking, and a water cooled 2 stroke. Nice, but we'll never get it in the US.
In the US, we did get some of the Malaguti and Aprilia 2t Liquid cooled scooters with the Yamaha style Minarelli engine, and the Kymco Super 9 as well. They are few and far between though because nobody really took care of them when they were new. About a year ago, someone out of florida was selling a Chinese liquid cooled 2 stroke. If you want to see some pretty neat liquid cooled two stroke scooters, google sprintframe. They get 22 horsepower out of the Minarelli 2 stroke engine.
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Old 03-19-2013, 10:07 AM   #29
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Interesting Reddit posting by theforerunner343 about folded versus riveted crankshaft bearings.

"After having owned and worked on many Tomos of the more recent generations I've found something that I thought I would share with all of you to hopefully spare some of you some down time in the future. If you own an A55 or a late A35, this tip applies to you.
Somewhere along the line (I think around 2005), Tomos started using slightly different crank bearings in their engine cases. Where previously the bearings had riveted cages to hold the balls in place, the cages now just have folds in the metal (small metal tabs folded over the cage).

This is what a folded bearing looks like.


This is what a riveted bearing looks like.


Here's the important part: if your engine has bearings with a folded cage, your bearings will fail! The cage will disintegrate into a hundred tiny pieces that will get sucked into your cylinder and possibly damage it! Buy new (riveted cage) bearings from your closest bearings/seals provider and install them. This is a cheap bit of preventative maintenance that will save you a huge headache in the future!"
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