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Old 04-03-2013, 02:21 PM   #3691
ossa
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If you do the full de-smog ... then you block off the connector to the the intake manifold (see following pics).
By doing that, you are changing how much air is getting into the intake manifold. That alone would be cause enough for needing to adjust the idle.

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First Mr. E-Ticket, I must thank you for your generosity in responding not only to my post, but your outstanding knowledge sharing on your EXC 350 post. Tons of useful information! I have read it in the past, end to end!

This is very interesting...
On page 45, our friend Zuber says:
"The charcoal cannister/tank vent (closed tank system) has only one electical connection to the ECU, that's the air valve under the throttle body. The ECU does not detect if this is connected, like on the v-twins. It only sends power to this valve at certain rpm/throttle settings to vent out the charcoal cannister."

Maybe the valve is open at idle which is a leaning condition which tends to raise the idle speed and plugging the hole enriches the mixture by allowing less air, therefore tending to lower the idle, requiring turning out the idle screw? People talk about flooding with poor starting/idling after taking a left side fall. This would support that the valve is open at idle. If my premise is wrong that the valve is open at idle, then the logic falls apart and I can't make sense of why the idle would go up with disconnecting and plugging.

Also, if the valve is open at any condition off idle and we've disconnected the solenoid and plugged the hole, then the engine is getting less air than the ECU thinks and it's management might be off a bit? With less air than it thinks, it might tend to be rich? Any concerns or does anyone know that the valve always closed off idle?
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:16 PM   #3692
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Not sure what's being chased here? Desmog or not? ECU?

Anyway, how about some more pix? Dirtier the better but I do enjoy the garage and hop up pix .

Last week during a trip 600 miles and 9 hr north to the mountians of south west VA, I got my first chance to ride in the snow. 3 days, cabin was at 3100ft, 24-38' but was never cold and deepest snow was about a foot. OMG was it fun - I was like every time out. I was also shocked how much it was like riding in the sand. Biggest diff was elevation change and the frozen ground (at times) under the snow.


On the top of Mt Maximo looking over at Iron Mt range.


I parked in this pine forest to get out of the wind. Sun was out and the snow was still dumping - loved it.


Barn parking at night - too cold to thaw but it prevent any more snow - it caked up like tundra? The bike did fantastic.
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Colemanfu screwed with this post 04-03-2013 at 03:39 PM
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:37 PM   #3693
ossa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colemanfu View Post

Not sure what's being chased here? Desmog or not? ECU?
I'm trying to get to the real understanding of the impact of de-smog and the relationship with ECU behavior. Ultimately yes, whether to de-smog or not...
And no, I don't see it as circular. If you have the definitive understanding, please share or point me to it. I have yet to see the topic clearly explained, or explained at all for that matter.
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:44 PM   #3694
Dirty in all
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Well what is happening when you desmog is you are changing the mixture and the ECU doesnt know it or adjust for it. Idle is an air screw. When you plug up all the leaks you need to add air again via the idle screw. Not much more to say about it. I guess not obvious to some people but it has been covered. Maybe not in so many words... or less.
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Old 04-03-2013, 04:18 PM   #3695
ossa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty in all View Post
Well what is happening when you desmog is you are changing the mixture and the ECU doesnt know it or adjust for it. Idle is an air screw. When you plug up all the leaks you need to add air again via the idle screw. Not much more to say about it. I guess not obvious to some people but it has been covered. Maybe not in so many words... or less.
Is the solenoid valve open only at idle or other throttle settings as well?

Thanks.
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Old 04-03-2013, 04:47 PM   #3696
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Don't think thats a definitive answer but yes it has been thought to be open at idle with a full canister/rich condition no load, causing bad idle and stalling.
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Old 04-03-2013, 05:16 PM   #3697
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Originally Posted by Dirty in all View Post
Don't think thats a definitive answer but yes it has been thought to be open at idle with a full canister/rich condition no load, causing bad idle and stalling.
Thanks very much.
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Old 04-03-2013, 10:40 PM   #3698
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Yeah, there is a small air leak through the canister at idle. This is very minor, but enough to raise the idle. When you plug the vacuum hose at the intake manifold the idle will drop, so you need to open up the idle a little to make up for it.

This doesn't effect the mixture. It doesn't know if the air is coming past the idle speed screw or leaking in through a vacuum hose. This is an open loop system, it knows rpm, throttle position, temps, vacuum, calculates what the mix should be and throws it down the hole.

The reason to remove this canister is the erratic running when the canister gets over full with fuel. When you drop the bike or ride down a steep hill liquid fuel will get blow out the vent and fill up the canister. Then it dumps this liquid into the engine instead of a little vapor. It will soak the plug and in bad cases (BMW) it will hydro lock the motor and bend a rod. It does remove VOC's from the atmosphere.

The other control, the SAS (air valve in the exhust) just adds fresh air to the exhaust and fools the test to make it seem there is less pollution coming out. It doesn't change the amount of pollution created, just lowers the percent of total gas coming out. It makes the back fires, but doesn't effect the running.

Hope this helps. Most of the weird running and flame out's go away after 15 hours.
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Old 04-04-2013, 03:35 AM   #3699
ossa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuber View Post
Yeah, there is a small air leak through the canister at idle. This is very minor, but enough to raise the idle. When you plug the vacuum hose at the intake manifold the idle will drop, so you need to open up the idle a little to make up for it.

This doesn't effect the mixture. It doesn't know if the air is coming past the idle speed screw or leaking in through a vacuum hose. This is an open loop system, it knows rpm, throttle position, temps, vacuum, calculates what the mix should be and throws it down the hole.

The reason to remove this canister is the erratic running when the canister gets over full with fuel. When you drop the bike or ride down a steep hill liquid fuel will get blow out the vent and fill up the canister. Then it dumps this liquid into the engine instead of a little vapor. It will soak the plug and in bad cases (BMW) it will hydro lock the motor and bend a rod. It does remove VOC's from the atmosphere.

The other control, the SAS (air valve in the exhust) just adds fresh air to the exhaust and fools the test to make it seem there is less pollution coming out. It doesn't change the amount of pollution created, just lowers the percent of total gas coming out. It makes the back fires, but doesn't effect the running.

Hope this helps. Most of the weird running and flame out's go away after 15 hours.
It does help. Thanks!
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Old 04-04-2013, 08:37 AM   #3700
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Another good reason to lose that canister and smog valve is that the larger 3 gal and up tanks all require them to be gone in order to fit. They take gas capacity space.
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Old 04-04-2013, 08:03 PM   #3701
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Picked up my 2013 today!

Started with this in the morning



This in the afternoon



Went to Pachaug for the first time and found this



Awesome bike so far. Even with crazy tall 15/45 gearing this bike rips on top and good grunt down low. :cool:
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Old 04-04-2013, 09:18 PM   #3702
Dirty in all
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You going to supermoto it too??

Quote:
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Picked up my 2013 today!
Bike rips with 17's on it as well.

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Old 04-04-2013, 10:27 PM   #3703
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Those rims are cool
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Old 04-04-2013, 11:45 PM   #3704
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Those rims are cool
Agreed Where did ya pick em up?
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Old 04-05-2013, 04:38 AM   #3705
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I got my junk used the PO used it for SM only. So it came with little wheels and a waiting jail cell . 90% of the time it's sporting the knobs which were unused and came with the bike - Flori-duh road are like this _____________________.
No idea where he got the 17's? I have been offered as much as $1000 for em but don't plan to sell. I can make the swap in less than 30 min and will throw em in the back of the truck when I head north this summer.


YZ - welcome and congrats on the new ride!
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