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Old 05-13-2013, 09:16 AM   #28681
Wadester
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurelius View Post
"...we did not note any marked increase in braking power as compared to dual pivot rim calipers."

That says it all. Besides, how much braking force can those skinny tires road bikes are equipped with handle? Pumped up to 120 psi, there's not much of a contact patch there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
That applies to discs on cross bikes too. There's more brake than tire...

M
I recall back in the day, I stuck with low-profile cantilever brakes on my MTB rather than upgrade to "V" brakes - because I could lock the tires up with what I had if I needed to. OTOH, I have some pretty good grip strength and could put out the necessary power. I run discs nowadays because it is easier to control them. Kinda like the difference between a 300 watt stereo running at "5" vs a 150 watt system at "10". Much less distortion because the system is running well within it's capability vs maxed out.
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:23 AM   #28682
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurelius View Post
"...we did not note any marked increase in braking power as compared to dual pivot rim calipers."

That says it all. Besides, how much braking force can those skinny tires road bikes are equipped with handle? Pumped up to 120 psi, there's not much of a contact patch there.
I dont know what sort of road dual pivots they are using, but my road bike brakes SUCK, and i paid decent money for em, dual pivot, upper middle range shimano.... My mtb discs however can stop me on a dime (and i would be laying on my back on top of the dime from the front flip induced by the brakes...LOL) so im not convinced with thier logic... I can skid my front tire on my mtb (a ritchey pro comp premonition in a 26x2.2 size) but i can barely break loose my 23c road tire on the back of my roadie....
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:26 AM   #28683
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogieboy View Post
I dont know what sort of road dual pivots they are using, but my road bike brakes SUCK, and i paid decent money for em, dual pivot, upper middle range shimano.... My mtb discs however can stop me on a dime (and i would be laying on my back on top of the dime from the front flip induced by the brakes...LOL) so im not convinced with thier logic... I can skid my front tire on my mtb (a ritchey pro comp premonition in a 26x2.2 size) but i can barely break loose my 23c road tire on the back of my roadie....
All I can say is 'you're doing something wrong.' Wrong pads or wrong levers: new stuff don't work with old stuff just like V-brake levers don't work well with cantis/road brakes and vice versa.

The first time I went to squeeze my new dp brakes on my first C-dale I darn near flipped myself over the bars. Dual pivot brakes ARE that much stronger than single pivot brakes.

M
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:36 AM   #28684
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Uninvited drafting

On my last two rides, I noticed a couple of cyclists slipping into position right behind me, close enough that I could barely see them any longer. I was traveling at a fairly high speed, so I assume they were drafting. Personally I couldn't care less if another rider hopes to save himself a few watts of energy that way, but it creates a dangerous situation if the rider in front doesn't realize there's anyone behind him. I mentioned this to a couple of friends who used to race, and they tell me it's not uncommon, referring to those who do it as "wheel suckers". Has anybody else in other parts of the country noticed this sort of thing?
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:38 AM   #28685
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurelius View Post
On my last two rides, I noticed a couple of cyclists slipping into position right behind me, close enough that I could barely see them any longer. I was traveling at a fairly high speed, so I assume they were drafting. Personally I couldn't care less if another rider hopes to save himself a few watts of energy that way, but it creates a dangerous situation if the rider in front doesn't realize there's anyone behind him. I mentioned this to a couple of friends who used to race, and they tell me it's not uncommon, referring to those who do it as "wheel suckers". Has anybody else in other parts of the country noticed this sort of thing?
Happens.

Some people get all weirded out by it. Me? If they don't say anything before latching on, its not my responsibility to point anything out. If they say 'howdy, etc' then I'll ride for all of us.

Chances are if something happens, its them going down. Guy in the front rarely has a problem with overlapped wheels.

My $.02

M
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:44 AM   #28686
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fullmonte View Post
Only 14 more feet and it could've been epic. Good on ya for getting it done. That sounds like a helluva ride. Isn't it a bit early in the year for those temps? I hope you got to enjoy a nice cooling breeze on the descent.
It's a bit early, but not by much. When we got over the top of Hamilton, the descent was like having a hair dryer pointed at us. It was hot. We stopped for water and SAG at the bottom, then, about 3 miles later, we started Sierra. By the time we got to the top, we were all out of water, with no SAG. We had to get roving SAG to bring us water. When they showed up, they had two folks in the car and told us that everybody but the 7 of us at the top had elected to bypass Sierra Road and head around.

Hero points for us, I guess. We probably should have thrown the Garmin in the air a few times, huh?

This weekend, we're out to Sonoma County, likely riding King Ridge, Skaggs Springs and other beautiful roads. I've ridden them on my motos and they're absolutely spectacular, so I'm pretty stoked about this Saturday.
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:45 AM   #28687
Aurelius
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogieboy View Post
I dont know what sort of road dual pivots they are using, but my road bike brakes SUCK, and i paid decent money for em, dual pivot, upper middle range shimano.... My mtb discs however can stop me on a dime (and i would be laying on my back on top of the dime from the front flip induced by the brakes...LOL) so im not convinced with thier logic... I can skid my front tire on my mtb (a ritchey pro comp premonition in a 26x2.2 size) but i can barely break loose my 23c road tire on the back of my roadie....
The brakes on my mountain bike are phenomenally powerful compared to even the latest dual pivot SRAM Red brakes on my road bike. But I can go into a long skid on my mtb without falling off. On a road bike, my concern would be that locking up the front wheel would send me to the pavement before I even knew what was happening.
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:47 AM   #28688
kbasa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurelius View Post
"...we did not note any marked increase in braking power as compared to dual pivot rim calipers."

That says it all. Besides, how much braking force can those skinny tires road bikes are equipped with handle? Pumped up to 120 psi, there's not much of a contact patch there.
I think I'm attracted to them because we have long, long descents. The drop off of Mt. Hamilton was 18 miles. If I could get better heat dissipation and better modulation, I'd be fine with discs. I ride in the rain, too, so a perforated disc is also attractive, particularly on long descents.

Yeah, I can lock the front wheel on my /2, but that's not, IMHO, the measure of a good braking system. An ability to resist fade, wet weather and better modulation would be my goals for a disc setup.
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:49 AM   #28689
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbasa View Post
I think I'm attracted to them because we have long, long descents. The drop off of Mt. Hamilton was 18 miles. If I could get better heat dissipation and better modulation, I'd be fine with discs. I ride in the rain, too, so a perforated disc is also attractive, particularly on long descents.

Yeah, I can lock the front wheel on my /2, but that's not, IMHO, the measure of a good braking system. An ability to resist fade, wet weather and better modulation would be my goals for a disc setup.
Don't forget they're less aero too! Added weight. Added complexity. Slower.

What's NOT to like on a road bike?!

M
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:50 AM   #28690
kbasa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
Happens.

Some people get all weirded out by it. Me? If they don't say anything before latching on, its not my responsibility to point anything out. If they say 'howdy, etc' then I'll ride for all of us.

Chances are if something happens, its them going down. Guy in the front rarely has a problem with overlapped wheels.

My $.02

M
Same here. If I roll up on someone, I say something like "Hey, I'm back here, if you don't mind. I'm happy to take a pull up front, if you'd like."

If they don't say anything, well, then they're on their own back there.

Of course, this always presents the opportunity to try and drop them.
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:54 AM   #28691
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Originally Posted by kbasa View Post
I think I'm attracted to them because we have long, long descents. The drop off of Mt. Hamilton was 18 miles. If I could get better heat dissipation and better modulation, I'd be fine with discs. I ride in the rain, too, so a perforated disc is also attractive, particularly on long descents.

Yeah, I can lock the front wheel on my /2, but that's not, IMHO, the measure of a good braking system. An ability to resist fade, wet weather and better modulation would be my goals for a disc setup.
I know what you mean. We've got some pretty serious climbs around here. Some of the hills have slopes of as much as 1%, and it's pretty scary coming down them.
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:54 AM   #28692
kbasa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
Don't forget they're less aero too! Added weight. Added complexity. Slower.

What's NOT to like on a road bike?!

M
Yeah, but I'm not racing; my objective is to be able to pedal efficiently at a pace I can manage for long periods of time. For the way I'm riding these days, I'm spending most of my day at 6mph climbing up some 6+% grade or dropping down the other side on my way to the next climb. Saturday's ride was unusual for us as the last 30 miles only had some smaller hills to get over, followed by about 5 or 6 miles of straight up flatland paceline work.

I'm riding 150 - 180 a week now, so I need a bike that's easy to ride for long periods. Let me say that brake fade on a 17% descent totally sucks, especially when it's a long technical descent like we get off of Mt. Diablo, Tam or Hamilton. I'll carry that weight up the hill to keep me on the hill on the descent.
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:55 AM   #28693
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Originally Posted by Aurelius View Post
I know what you mean. We've got some pretty serious climbs around here. Some of the hills have slopes of as much as 1%, and it's pretty scary coming down them.
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:56 AM   #28694
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbasa View Post
I think I'm attracted to them because we have long, long descents. The drop off of Mt. Hamilton was 18 miles. If I could get better heat dissipation and better modulation, I'd be fine with discs. I ride in the rain, too, so a perforated disc is also attractive, particularly on long descents.

Yeah, I can lock the front wheel on my /2, but that's not, IMHO, the measure of a good braking system. An ability to resist fade, wet weather and better modulation would be my goals for a disc setup.
Long descents and rain? I would recommend discs.
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Old 05-13-2013, 10:00 AM   #28695
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Originally Posted by kbasa View Post
Yeah, but I'm not racing; my objective is to be able to pedal efficiently at a pace I can manage for long periods of time. For the way I'm riding these days, I'm spending most of my day at 6mph climbing up some 6+% grade or dropping down the other side on my way to the next climb. Saturday's ride was unusual for us as the last 30 miles only had some smaller hills to get over, followed by about 5 or 6 miles of straight up flatland paceline work.

I'm riding 150 - 180 a week now, so I need a bike that's easy to ride for long periods. Let me say that brake fade on a 17% descent totally sucks, especially when it's a long technical descent like we get off of Mt. Diablo, Tam or Hamilton. I'll carry that weight up the hill to keep me on the hill on the descent.
You need a Volagi or Roubaix or Synapse or the new C59

M
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