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Old 05-12-2013, 09:53 PM   #106
leakypetcock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anotherguy View Post
Chump is right. You're clueless and the statement you made stating you "probably know more about engines, bikes, fuel and tuning than most above-average mechanics" is obviously an overstatement to be generous. You sir are a charlatan and should not be giving tuning advice regardless of your weekday position.

And reading a plug is still used at Bonneville where the real tuners ply their trade. That plug is just a tick on the rich side but a good reading for fuel but the timing is a bit too advanced. No "pepper" so it's not detonating. I'd let that one go but be sure to use premium pump gas. Everyone I know that knows how to make power has one of these handy at all times.
Maybe you should read this.

http://advrider.com/forums/announcement.php?f=11&a=88
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Old 05-12-2013, 11:15 PM   #107
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I was really hoping I'd finally found "an insider", someone who really knew stuff to make things clear for us "chumps". You still know way more than I do, but basically you just blend different components together based on the wishes and specifications of others. I'd still really like to know what causes detonation with 87 octane, and what component prevents it with 91+? I have been told that it's a component additive that slows the flame speed. You called me on it. So you must know the correct response?

Where do you get this information? I only ask because I make gas for a living. 75,000 Barrels a day. I don't put "additives" in to raise octane. The components are just at a different ratio. You refine crude oil, you get lighter products. Then you refine them further, using a catalyst to reform molecules into Reformate gas. You use hydrofluoric acid to make Alkylate, you use a direct straight run gas, you use another catalyst to crack molecules into FCC gas. So now, you blend these components back into a finished product. You add butane to raise your vapor pressure for easier starting, more in the winter months. You add ethanol to raise octane and get a cleaner burn reducing emissions. There are so many specifications that you must adhere to. Distillation, corrosion, drivability, octane, residue, benzene content, specific gravity. Listening to the banter here is like masturbating with a cheese grater. Slightly amusing but mostly painful.
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Old 05-13-2013, 06:07 AM   #108
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Steve G , how about a pic of the RC30.
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Old 05-13-2013, 06:22 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by leakypetcock View Post

I'm telling Mom!!!!!!

Not an attack,just a statement of fact. And it did stick to the subject at hand. So run for the mods 'tis only the 'net.
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Old 05-13-2013, 08:41 AM   #110
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Now moved to the Garage. Ouch!

My bike requires Premium unleaded, I make it drink just about anything. Stuff is often hard to find in the more remote places where I seem to ride it. Replace fuel filter more often than the BMW recommendations as I found out last winter and keep on riding.
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:17 AM   #111
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check octane requirements

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Originally Posted by NONo443 View Post
I do, and there seems to be no real difference. I just hit which one I can get to the quickest if the prices are close enough.
check this out. http://www.wikihow.com/Check-Your-Ve...e-Requirements
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:25 AM   #112
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The Wikipedia link on tetraethyl lead is reasonably accurate and can provide a starting point to research more about anti-knock and pre-detonation during combustion chemistry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetraethyllead

As previously described, both knocking and pre-detonation are terms associated with the abnormal combustion process. This involves a detonation (supersonic wavefront) rather than deflagration (fast burning subsonic wavefront). I think the terms pre-ignition and pre-detonation came from the observation that retarding the ignition (i.e. delaying the spark until the piston was closer to TDC) stop the 'pinging' and 'knocking'. The delayed spark reduced the energy from the fuel and reduced power. This also caused the engine to run cooler and the fuel to not burn completely.

The fuel resistance to detonation or knocking/pinging can be changed through additives such as tetraethyl lead, by cooling the intake air, enriching the air/fuel ratio, and adding a water-water/methanol mixture to the intake air. Dual plugging can also stop pre-ignition or knocking by burning fuel more efficiently with the ignition timing retarded. Buying higher octane fuel is generally the most cost effective solution, provided it is available.

My bikes both burn 87 octane with no problems. But my supercharged Miata needs 93 octane and the mixture is enriched during boost to prevent knocking/pinging. Also, the color of the spark plug electrode is influenced by many factors such as heat range, fuel additives, and engine condition with no direct association with knocking/pinging.
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Old 05-13-2013, 10:01 AM   #113
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Steve G , how about a pic of the RC30.

I'm one of those computer challenged guys I'm afraid. I've never been able to figure out how to reduce the file size of a picture to within the capacities of this website. I can e-mail pics no problem,,,,be happy to send you pics of my steeds if you PM me your mail address.
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Old 05-13-2013, 06:38 PM   #114
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BMW R100R--Regular is fine

I've been running my R100R on regular, and have noticed no difference in performance or mileage, and no pinging.

It's apparently rated for 87 octane RON. The compression ration is only 8.2/1.

Saves about 40 cents a gallon over premium.
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:06 PM   #115
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Yeah why has the price spread grown so much? Used to be 10-15 cents between regular and premium. I've seen as high as a 60 cent spread.
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:22 PM   #116
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Yeah why has the price spread grown so much? Used to be 10-15 cents between regular and premium. I've seen as high as a 60 cent spread.
Greed.
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Old 05-13-2013, 10:15 PM   #117
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Yeah why has the price spread grown so much? Used to be 10-15 cents between regular and premium. I've seen as high as a 60 cent spread.
It's reguarly 40-60 cents difference around here between 87 and 93. I think one Shell station had nearly an 80 cent difference a while back. The huge difference is one of the things that annoys me the most about gas prices. I can see all prices fluctuating within reason together, but having such a huge difference due to actual costs is a bit mind boggling.

I conspire to think that it's something of a marketing price war between stations and emphasis on cash discounts. I've noticed an uptick in stations advertising their cash price, which helps save them CC processing fees and doubles to get you into the store for upsells on convience items. Said items have larger margins than gas for the station. And by advertising their cash discount price they come to the front on aggregating websites like GasBuddy. Now all this is just total supposition and supported by no hard evidence, but hey, conspiracy theories are fun! The only other reason I gather is some particular portion of the refined pertrollium that is present in higher concentrations within higher octanes has risen in price (or in another way, regular mixes are cheaper to make nowadays than mid/premiums).

That's actually another annoyance of mine. I'll often use GasBuddy or the like on my phone to see what stations have the best prices near me when traveling, but I get there and it's a cash discount price. So then -- assuming I even have cash on me -- have to partially degear, wait in line to prepay (as the majority of stations require cash customers to prepay), fill up, then wait in line again to get my change.
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Old 05-13-2013, 11:12 PM   #118
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I think almost everyone in this thread knows basic math; and basic reasoning. Is there something special that I was supposed to grasp from that link?
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Old 05-14-2013, 05:56 AM   #119
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Is there something special that I was supposed to grasp from that link?
its a biker thing. you wouldnt understand.
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Old 05-26-2013, 01:50 PM   #120
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I apologize if Ive missed this elsewhere on the forum. Typically in my dirt bikes I would run 91. But I just purchased a new Triumph Tiger Explorer and according to its manual 87 or better is the recommendation. Im not looking for any more performance out of this bike, it has plenty of that already. However I would like to get as many trouble free miles on it as possible and keep the engine in top shape. Right now Im running 89 but does anyone know if it would be best to run 91 in the Triumph 1215 engine or am I better off sticking with 89?

Thank you

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