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Old 05-19-2013, 07:09 PM   #14491
ausibatla
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wundis View Post
i'm confused now :/

it starts fine, works fine for 20 seconds, then starts to work like a hit n miss engine + black smoke out of the exhaust.

i've measured the float level with calipers - the lines are perfectly paralel, the level is at 14,7 mm. float level setup was made by following this link

i thought the k&n filter might be the faulty bit, but no - the stock filter does absolutely the same thing.

now when i measured the float level with the transparent hose the first time (carbs off, fuel in, tidy measurement taken) the results were +-0mm.
Now I checked the fuel level after I shut down the engine - i got surprising results, both floats were way up, like +7 mm up. how is that possible? if I bend the adjustment tab on the carbs to compensate for the +7mm , the lines won't be anywhere near parallel.

i somehow get a feeling that the new replacement needle floats (oem) have weak springs and are not able to hold up the floats in the middle point, vibration does its job and the small springs get pushed in, thus raising the floats and flooding the carbs = ergo the black smoke and shitty run.

guys, i'm stuck and i need advice. buying another set of needle valves is a true robbery. bringing back these - dont think it will work like that.

If you set the float height with the carbies level on the bench then they will be out a bit because they sit on the bike at a slight angle but 7mm is far too much because of that. Before you start pulling things apart again try adjusting the mixture screw. You might get lucky.
Cheers.
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Old 05-20-2013, 12:05 AM   #14492
wundis
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i'm a bit sceptic about trying to solve this issue with the mixture screw... afaik the mixture screw controls the mixture whilst iddling, and its influence on higher revs is rather small.
high float level on the other hand will influence the mixture on all ranges. gonna double-post to the bst bible page.
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Old 05-20-2013, 01:37 AM   #14493
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Wundis , If your floats are worn at the pivot points and the cage when the bike isn,t horizontal there would be a difference after setting float height.
Did you put new seels around the sometimes brass sometimes stainless seats, these O rings didn,t get sprayed with carb cleaner buy any chance.
How many klm,s on the bike because I have replaced floats and cages on bikes with 70k on them and these parts needed replaceing because I could not achive a correct height with the old ones .
Allso have you double checked to make sure you have the fuel lines on the correct location and not on the breather or ass up.
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robmoto screwed with this post 05-20-2013 at 01:44 AM
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Old 05-20-2013, 01:44 AM   #14494
wundis
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Originally Posted by robmoto View Post
Wundis , If your floats are worn at the pivot points and the cage when the bike isn,t horizontal there would be a difference after setting float height.
Did you put new seels around the sometimes brass sometimes stainless seats, these O rings didn,t get sprayed with carb cleaner buy any chance.
now that was a chaotic reply :) thanks anyway :)

i've used carb cleaner when i dissasembled everything. not after :) all o-rings are new, float cage looks straight and proper.
ill have a look at the orings again today (hopefully).

PS the bike has ~50kkm on the clock
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Old 05-20-2013, 01:55 AM   #14495
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once again, the tricky bit is that when i measure the float height by pouring in fuel on carbs sitting on a bench - the level is ok. when mounted on the bike after all those vibrations - its way +. to me it looks like that small annoying spring in the float valves is too weak. the floats keep rising causing all of my problems.

i need to check if my theory is correct, must do the bench test again and tap them slightly to see if the level changes.

PS robmoto, did you compare the old floats and the new floats? could you tell what was worn visually? ive got my brothers big next to mine, i can check how his floats are... in secret of course.
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Old 05-20-2013, 02:26 AM   #14496
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All I remember is at the pivot point I could wobble it from all directions and easily see that it was a sloppy fit .
One would assume that both parts would be worn,
Have you got a inline filter as some rubbish my be stuck to the seat, yours being a SR/43 should have over flow pipes, leave the fuel on and see if it is leaking out the tubes .
Allso drain the bowls just to see if any crap has come through.
Try gentle taps with a screwdriver handle around the bowl area as one of the floats could be stuck.
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Old 05-20-2013, 02:41 AM   #14497
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SR/43 I don,t have one, but don,t they have a shaft that is connected to both enrichnes and a pull cable, if so, check that it is returning to full off when pushed to off.
Its all a process of illumination .
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Old 05-20-2013, 03:50 AM   #14498
p3dro
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I'm slowly losing the will to live...

My DR800 has been at the Garage for 2 and a half weeks now.
They're still not able to get it to spark.
The generator was re-wound but no change. Next they suggested we change the cdi, I found one in Germany which is now fitted but still no joy.
I'm too scared to ask how many hours they're going to charge me for this. When I popped in on Saturday there were 5 of them crowded around the bike with electrical gizmo's trying to work it out.
I don't know if I can take any more of this.
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Old 05-20-2013, 04:16 AM   #14499
Simosez
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p3dro View Post
My DR800 has been at the Garage for 2 and a half weeks now.
They're still not able to get it to spark.
The generator was re-wound but no change. Next they suggested we change the cdi, I found one in Germany which is now fitted but still no joy.
I'm too scared to ask how many hours they're going to charge me for this. When I popped in on Saturday there were 5 of them crowded around the bike with electrical gizmo's trying to work it out.
I don't know if I can take any more of this.
do you have the manual for the bike? it goes through how to test each component quite thoroughly. test each component individually as per the book then start looking at how the system works as a whole. there are a few tricks with the big that several things need to be correct before it will start.
or you could skip town and never return
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Old 05-20-2013, 04:45 AM   #14500
wundis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p3dro View Post
My DR800 has been at the Garage for 2 and a half weeks now.
They're still not able to get it to spark.
The generator was re-wound but no change. Next they suggested we change the cdi, I found one in Germany which is now fitted but still no joy.
I'm too scared to ask how many hours they're going to charge me for this. When I popped in on Saturday there were 5 of them crowded around the bike with electrical gizmo's trying to work it out.
I don't know if I can take any more of this.
As Simosez suggests, go step by step - the schemes are in the manual, check the fuses thoroughly, check the cabling and contacts (especially ground) thoroughly, check the sparks, coils, high voltage cables, ignition key, ignition shut down button, clutch indicator (must be shortened), side stand indicator (must be shortened).

There have been a number of people with similar problems lately, remind me - it turns but theres no spark?
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Old 05-20-2013, 04:55 AM   #14501
Silent Hunter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p3dro View Post
My DR800 has been at the Garage for 2 and a half weeks now.
They're still not able to get it to spark.
The generator was re-wound but no change. Next they suggested we change the cdi, I found one in Germany which is now fitted but still no joy.
I'm too scared to ask how many hours they're going to charge me for this. When I popped in on Saturday there were 5 of them crowded around the bike with electrical gizmo's trying to work it out.
I don't know if I can take any more of this.
Hang in there buddy, my DR800 had the same problem a couple of years back too. No spark, no matter what.

Ended up changing the CDI, Stator coil, and starter engine and for good measure, I change the wire harness as well.

After that the bike was ok for several months until the fuel pump busted.

The bike was in the shop for nearly 1/2 a year....
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Old 05-20-2013, 05:41 AM   #14502
wundis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robmoto View Post
All I remember is at the pivot point I could wobble it from all directions and easily see that it was a sloppy fit .
One would assume that both parts would be worn,
Have you got a inline filter as some rubbish my be stuck to the seat, yours being a SR/43 should have over flow pipes, leave the fuel on and see if it is leaking out the tubes .
Allso drain the bowls just to see if any crap has come through.
Try gentle taps with a screwdriver handle around the bowl area as one of the floats could be stuck.
Ill play with the carbs tonight. In the meanwhile, I had a light bulb moment.
Does anyone have a spare (an old one would do the trick, too) float valve sitting somewhere? The thing i'd like to see is how much pressure in grams it needs to have for the small spring inside to compress fully. In exchange for the measurement ill buy you a beer next time you're in Lithuania!
I'm going to measure the values myself using my girlfriends kitchen scales (when she's asleep obvioulsy) on the float valves ive got (2 new oem, 1 old strong, 1 old weak).
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Old 05-20-2013, 06:25 AM   #14503
spen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p3dro View Post
My DR800 has been at the Garage for 2 and a half weeks now.
They're still not able to get it to spark.
The generator was re-wound but no change. Next they suggested we change the cdi, I found one in Germany which is now fitted but still no joy.
I'm too scared to ask how many hours they're going to charge me for this. When I popped in on Saturday there were 5 of them crowded around the bike with electrical gizmo's trying to work it out.
I don't know if I can take any more of this.
Is the bike turning over ??? or completely dead
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Old 05-20-2013, 08:23 AM   #14504
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Wundis,

Does it always run OK when you first start it?

If it runs well for those first few seconds and then starts to miss and run very rich (black smoke)as the engine warms, then, I'd check the enrichening (choke) circuit on the carbs. It may be that your choke plunger (valve) is sticking open or the cable (on later SR43s) is hanging up and even though the knob on the bars is all the way down, the plunger in the carbs is still open.
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Old 05-20-2013, 08:24 AM   #14505
wundis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wundis View Post
Ill play with the carbs tonight. In the meanwhile, I had a light bulb moment.
Does anyone have a spare (an old one would do the trick, too) float valve sitting somewhere? The thing i'd like to see is how much pressure in grams it needs to have for the small spring inside to compress fully. In exchange for the measurement ill buy you a beer next time you're in Lithuania!
I'm going to measure the values myself using my girlfriends kitchen scales (when she's asleep obvioulsy) on the float valves ive got (2 new oem, 1 old strong, 1 old weak).
OK, now here are the results of the 2 old float valves I have:
The weak one takes approx 20g to fully compress the small spring inside.
The stronger one takes an incredible 55g to fully compress. I'm pretty sure a difference like that would cause some serious inequalities between the carbs.
The new ones are going to be somewhere in between, probably around 30g judging by the fact that they were only a bit stronger than the old weak one.

Anyhow, does anyone know what role those springs play in the function of the carb?
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