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Old 06-17-2013, 09:02 AM   #256
Offcamber OP
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Originally Posted by wiseblood View Post
You're right. I don't think I've EVER read a message from the kids who didn't live!



but apparently your unsure...

I know for a fact I haven't....
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Old 06-17-2013, 09:12 AM   #257
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Originally Posted by Offcamber View Post


but apparently your unsure...

I know for a fact I haven't....

"You're"


As in, "you're joking, of course."
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Old 06-17-2013, 09:45 AM   #258
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Originally Posted by Offcamber View Post
Wow 17 pages...who knew....


I am against all checkpoints beyond the commercial weigh station and Federal Border Crossings...

If LE wants to put a cop on each corner looking for violations passively then so be it...but I think funds could be better spent.

The NYC debate is fine and sounds like the folks living there have a valid issue but my original post was really about the bigger picture. Thankfully some states have been proactive and banned this practice. The legislators in those states obviously have seen this practice for what it was, a money grab and nothing to do with public safety.

I don't think motorcyclist should be a protected class, they should be treated like every other private vehicle on the road....

For those who keep telling us to stop whining and do something about it, well, discussions like this on a forum is part of the process.....we are informing others of what is happening. Thats how change begins....letting people know there is a problem. I was unaware of the issues in NYC, I ride in NY state often but I don't go down to the city on two wheels....

Also, there are things being done...the AMA, ABATE and others are trying to fight this.....the more the word gets out the more will speak out against it and hopefully it will change.

I look at it like this....many of us in our 40s-50s etc...will say....I rode a bicycle without a helmet when I was a kid and lived....played with fireworks and lived...had a set of lawn darts and lived...hell my dad had a Corvair and never crashed it.....now there are laws saying kids have to wear bicycle helmets....freedoms to make your own decisions have been taken away...and the next generation will think nothing of it because they don't know what it was like to have those freedoms in the first place....so they don't fight it...they even think its a good idea...because in their minds that's how its always been....The slippery slope people talk about is not a steep hill it is a long shallow grade....

Ok off the soap box....
well said. very very well said. thanks
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Old 06-17-2013, 10:02 AM   #259
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So when you gonna ride through Times Square with me again....


Next time I ride up I'm calling......it was a blast!!!!!!
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Old 06-17-2013, 10:26 AM   #260
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Originally Posted by Dranrab Luap View Post
I am telling you right now that if a checkpoint targeted only cars that have 22" or larger rims, many of you would fall on a different side of this argument.


Kansas City is getting back into the check point game. They were out of it for a few years after they set one up on a 5 lane southern by-pass after a Chiefs game. Backed traffic up for 17 miles.
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Old 06-17-2013, 04:20 PM   #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dranrab Luap View Post
I am not at all against check points. I am against singling out a class of vehicles. I am telling you right now that if a checkpoint targeted only cars that have 22" or larger rims, many of you would fall on a different side of this argument.


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Old 06-21-2013, 11:27 AM   #262
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A similar discussion to this has been going on in a local NYC motorcyclist email list and a friend of mine put his 2c in there a couple of days ago. He is the attorney who sued the NYSP over the checkpoint tactics. I think his post there warrants cross-posting to here...

Quote:
Dear brothers and sisters,

As a rider and the attorney that took the case against "motorcycle only checkpoints" to Federal District Court and up on appeal, at a personal cost of tens of thousands of dollars of my own money, and my office's legal services donated pro bono, on behalf of all riders, I think it only appropriate I weigh in on the subject.

The New York State Police first started the program of "motorcycle only checkpoints" in 2007 with a grant application that cited as a justification for the program "the rampant increase in motorcycle fatalities" even though in the year prior to the initial grant application, from 2006 to 2007, motorcycle fatalities actually went down in NY State from 194 -164.

They stated that the main cause of motorcycle fatalities were caused by alcohol and/or brazen and reckless riding. The "motorcycle only checkpoints" were admittedly not going to address either of those problems.

The grant application did set forth the details of the death of a New York State Trooper who died while in pursuit of a motorcyclist - the enforcement checkpoint program was dedicated to the deceased trooper and nicknamed after his badge number.

Law enforcement officials working the checkpoints would be paid overtime.

The program has kept no statistics on what percentage of riders were found guilty of any infractions. The program has kept no statistics on how long riders are detained. The statistics that they did keep indicate that over 56% of the tickets issued were for non-safety related infractions.

Whenever any motor vehicle is stopped on the roadway it is a seizure under the Fourth Amendment of the United States Constitution and, according to the United States Supreme Court, must be reasonable to pass Constitutional scrutiny. Reasonableness is determined by weighing the gravity of the public concern which the checkpoints serve and how effective they are in advancing that concern against the severity of the checkpoints' interference with the liberty of the motorists being stopped.

The "gravity of the public concern" is measured by immediacy and severity of the problem which the checkpoints are attempting to address. (Sobriety checkpoints have been deemed constitutional because they remove the immediate threat of the drunk driver from the roadway.)

They also look at the absence of practical alternatives. (There are numerous practical alternatives, i.e. New York State Law requires motorcycles to undergo annual safety inspections)

To date, New Hampshire and North Carolina have passed laws banning the use of NHTSA grant funds for motorcycle-only checkpoints. California has Proposed Legislation. New York has NO proposed legislation prohibiting Motorcycle only Checkpoints.

At the federal level, Wisconsin Congressmen Jim Sensenbrenner, Tom Petri, Paul Ryan, and Sean Duffy have introduced H.R. 904 that, if enacted, would have prohibited the U.S. Secretary of Transportation from providing funds to state and local governments for the creation "motorcycle-only checkpoints".

The bill has never made it out of committee.

Admittedly, sometimes I ride like an asshole. I own two motorcycles that are "air-cooled" and rather than burn my thighs sitting in traffic, I have on many an occasion split lanes to get to my destination. If ticketed, I would pay the fine as justified.

I am nonetheless against a law abiding rider having to sit on the side of the road for 45 minutes because of a choice to ride a motorcycle as a preferred means of transportation.

Ride free, ride safe,

Mitchell Proner
www.Bikerhelp.com
www.Prolaw1.com
Proner & Proner
Attorneys At Law
60 E 42nd Street
New York, NY 10165
(212)986-3030
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Old 06-23-2013, 07:19 PM   #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dranrab Luap View Post
I am not at all against check points. I am against singling out a class of vehicles. I am telling you right now that if a checkpoint targeted only cars that have 22" or larger rims, many of you would fall on a different side of this argument.
I actually have attended the community meetings to protest NYPD's "Stop and Frisk" policy which essentially allows them to stop you if you "look" like a badass. Profiling and stopping anyone with no reasonable cause is BS and very un-American.
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Old 06-23-2013, 08:25 PM   #264
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I actually have attended the community meetings to protest NYPD's "Stop and Frisk" policy which essentially allows them to stop you if you "look" like a badass. Profiling and stopping anyone with no reasonable cause is BS and very un-American.
The reality of the NYPD's SQF policy is that they only use it "uptown".

Which means that in practice it is applied only to lower middle class blacks and hispanics. Because ya' know everyone north of 96th looks like a badass, right?

If they tried this shit on Wall Street there would be hell to pay. Times Square or Lincoln Center, we'd see our tourist income drop by 85-90%. Nobody wants to pay $350/night to be treated like criminals.

Meanwhile, over in the NYC Commuters thread one of our locals reportedly was singled out the other night in a general (not MC-targeted) checkpoint. Before he could even get the kickstand down one cop had already grabbed the keys out of his ignition. When is the last time some cop reached into a car to grab the ignition keys before questioning had even begun?

There was more. Wander over if anyone is curious.

Cops here are systematically treating motorcyclists like shit for absolutely no reason at all.

Time for a revolt. Seriously.
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Old 06-24-2013, 10:22 AM   #265
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Originally Posted by Rectaltronics View Post
The reality of the NYPD's SQF policy is that they only use it "uptown".

Cops here are systematically treating motorcyclists like shit for absolutely no reason at all.

Time for a revolt. Seriously.
this is the real reason for the NSA snooping, stopping the populace from exercising it's constitutional rights. But I digress.
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Old 06-24-2013, 12:13 PM   #266
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NYC HOV lanes - 3+ on a bike??

I read this on the NYC DOT page: "The existing bus and taxi high occupancy vehicle lane (HOV) into the Queens-Midtown Tunnel is open for any motorists who have three or more persons in their vehicle (HOV 3+). The hours of operation are 7:00 am to 10:00 am on the westbound LIE from Calvary Cemetery to the tunnel. Motorcycle riders must obey the same rules as other motorists and have the required number of passengers" http://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/motorist/carpool.shtml

Does this mean that bikes have to have 3 or more people on each one??? IF so that is insane.
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Old 06-24-2013, 12:22 PM   #267
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Originally Posted by Michael View Post
I read this on the NYC DOT page: "The existing bus and taxi high occupancy vehicle lane (HOV) into the Queens-Midtown Tunnel is open for any motorists who have three or more persons in their vehicle (HOV 3+). The hours of operation are 7:00 am to 10:00 am on the westbound LIE from Calvary Cemetery to the tunnel. Motorcycle riders must obey the same rules as other motorists and have the required number of passengers" http://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/motorist/carpool.shtml

Does this mean that bikes have to have 3 or more people on each one??? IF so that is insane.
So they're still in violation of Federal law. HOV lanes on federally funded highways are supposed to be open to motorcycles.
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Old 06-24-2013, 01:41 PM   #268
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So they're still in violation of Federal law. HOV lanes on federally funded highways are supposed to be open to motorcycles.



Jim
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Old 06-24-2013, 01:45 PM   #269
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The info on this website is intentionally wrong an misleading (or just outdated, for the naive folks out there). What's bothering me is that this link appears to be dead: nymstf.org/HOVaccess.htm Any comments from the nymstf folks?
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Old 06-24-2013, 01:59 PM   #270
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Originally Posted by psychopompos View Post
The info on this website is intentionally wrong an misleading (or just outdated, for the naive folks out there). What's bothering me is that this link appears to be dead: nymstf.org/HOVaccess.htm Any comments from the nymstf folks?
Website was redesigned. We're fixing up dead links.

There is a "secret" old link which might help you:

http://apps.nymstf.org/HOVaccess.htm
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