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Old 07-09-2013, 12:09 AM   #16
Twin-shocker
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Originally Posted by joexr View Post
Porting does not make a bike harder to ride. The power peak may be at higher RPMs , but this is determined by the pipe as well. MUCH higher RPMs , no. More power , yes.
I wonder how on earth extending the port open times, which means power is produced much higher in the rev range, helps to make a bike easier to ride?

Proper motor set up, and paying careful attention to suspension are both things that should be looked out before spending money on "porting"!
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Old 07-09-2013, 01:50 AM   #17
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The DT230 has a big hit off the bottom end; that's why it was made, the DT200 was too peaky. Because of the instant off idle power it has traction control...just an ignition retard when it detects too much wheel spin. I don't know if it really works, in slippery conditions it still wheelspins like any 2 stroke, I guess you'd have to disconnect it to find out. I thought mine was a well balanced little package powerwise.
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Old 07-09-2013, 03:44 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Twin-shocker View Post
I wonder how on earth extending the port open times, which means power is produced much higher in the rev range, helps to make a bike easier to ride?
porting is not just changing port timing. . sure if you raise the exhaust/transfers it will change where the peak power is. improving shape of ports increases flow, and you can also widen ports, optimize the port surfaces, increase or decrease fuel charge velocity, optimize transfer flow, etc. all without changing port timing at all.

i'm pretty sure a dt230 is not hard to ride stock. making more power at a specific rev range does not make a bike harder to ride. let's say you normally ride 125mx'ers. when you get on a stock dt230 it could be more difficult to ride, since you're used to riding on the pipe and the top of the rev range. making a bike faster/more power does not necessarily mean it's more difficult to ride. maybe more difficult to ride slow. but who wants a bike that's hard to ride fast, and easy to ride slow? oh, i know. a trials rider. the dt230 is not a trials bike. it's definitely not a race bike either. but it would be nice to know the power is available if you wanted it. for me it's MUCH harder for me to ride a bike that falls flat on it's face on the top... i'll take a peaky motor all day over a torque motor. at least i know if i hold it wot it will rev to the moon until i decide to shift, instead of short shifting the hell out of it....and if you keep them on the pipe, you're getting all the power, all the time. some 2 strokes are meant to be ridden in the screaming overrev. it's what makes a 2 stroke fun. even modern 4 strokes try their damnedest to duplicate the top end power delivery of a 2 stroke.

i'm gonna guess there is tons of hidden power in the dt230 cylinder...it's your choice whether to optimize it or not. there is some very simple porting that can be done to most cylinders that will increase power everywhere...without making it peaky... that being said, yamaha generally has pretty good port design stock, and generally the ports are already optimized for the power delivery they assume most riders want.

there is no doubt proper suspension setup (i'm assuming the stock dt230 suspension is kinda pitiful) will make a dt230 easier to ride faster...or slower for those who like that kind of thing.


either way replating is the cheapest in the short and long term. unless the dt230 had a boreable liner originally - i do not know - but i doubt it - are any newer water cooled bikes made with boreable liners anymore? i believe everyone has switched to nikasil..





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Old 07-09-2013, 04:05 AM   #19
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Have you ever ridden a DT230 ? They make power everywhere, strong bottom end, and with stock gearing will pull over 160kph (100mph) - that's pretty damn impressive for 225cc. You'll be on a much bigger bike to get more performance than a DT230, and it's just so much fun to have this much get up and go on a small bike with all the extras it has. I'd ride one before I tweaked the porting...Yamaha has this one sorted, 2 strokes didn't get much more sophisticated than the DT230.
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Old 07-09-2013, 05:46 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motu View Post
Have you ever ridden a DT230 ? They make power everywhere, strong bottom end, and with stock gearing will pull over 160kph (100mph) - that's pretty damn impressive for 225cc. You'll be on a much bigger bike to get more performance than a DT230, and it's just so much fun to have this much get up and go on a small bike with all the extras it has. I'd ride one before I tweaked the porting...Yamaha has this one sorted, 2 strokes didn't get much more sophisticated than the DT230.
i have not, they are not available in usa. as i said, yamaha usually gets port design pretty close. i never assumed it was gutless, just assumed it could be made less gutless - the original poster mentioned yz250 top end, which no doubt would increase the hp significantly. it seemed he wanted more hp and a new cylinder all in one fell swoop - i was just suggesting where hp gains could be made. i also assume there is a restrictor in the exhaust, or carb that could be removed for more hp - most street legal 2 strokes now have a restriction somewhere to meet government exhaust restrictions...

that being said, top speed is primarily a function of gearing, not horsepower.. just about any bike with 20hp or more can most likely attain 100mph...as long as the power to weight ratio is reasonable..


Quote:
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You'll be on a much bigger bike to get more performance than a DT230
i don't doubt this for a second - it appears to me that it's an evolved wr200 which was a fine bike in it's own right.
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Old 07-09-2013, 08:02 AM   #21
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i have not, they are not available in usa. as i said, yamaha usually gets port design pretty close. i never assumed it was gutless, just assumed it could be made less gutless - the original poster mentioned yz250 top end, which no doubt would increase the hp significantly. it seemed he wanted more hp and a new cylinder all in one fell swoop - i was just suggesting where hp gains could be made. i also assume there is a restrictor in the exhaust, or carb that could be removed for more hp - most street legal 2 strokes now have a restriction somewhere to meet government exhaust restrictions...

that being said, top speed is primarily a function of gearing, not horsepower.. just about any bike with 20hp or more can most likely attain 100mph...as long as the power to weight ratio is reasonable..



i don't doubt this for a second - it appears to me that it's an evolved wr200 which was a fine bike in it's own right.

I doubt very much that a bike with only 20bhp would be able to reach 100mph. If this were indeed the case, it would follow that something with 60bhp would easily reach 200mph...............

Strange how BS posted up on the net tends to get believed by those who are gullible, and actually want to think this stuff is correct...................
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Old 07-09-2013, 08:05 PM   #22
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I doubt very much that a bike with only 20bhp would be able to reach 100mph. If this were indeed the case, it would follow that something with 60bhp would easily reach 200mph...............

Strange how BS posted up on the net tends to get believed by those who are gullible, and actually want to think this stuff is correct...................
theoretically, twice as fast needs 8 times as much power. ponder that for a while.
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Old 07-09-2013, 09:11 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Twin-shocker View Post
I doubt very much that a bike with only 20bhp would be able to reach 100mph. If this were indeed the case, it would follow that something with 60bhp would easily reach 200mph...............

Strange how BS posted up on the net tends to get believed by those who are gullible, and actually want to think this stuff is correct...................
You are wrong again as usual. You should really stop blithering about things you don't actually know anything about. Stop spreading the BS.
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Old 07-09-2013, 10:14 PM   #24
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YEE FRICKIN HAH !!!
Here we go again
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Old 07-09-2013, 10:45 PM   #25
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My 2 stroke theory always was,
if the scratch in the cylinder is not big enough to blow the crank seals, then it should fire and smoke like it was designed from stop light to stop light.
After all, it already is a cylinder with holes in it.
If I was going to race may be different, but when just impressing the girls with my stinky smoke, the results seem to be the same.
And the piston slap,
always has some tribunal drum effect on women at stop lights.

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Old 07-10-2013, 12:23 AM   #26
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You are wrong again as usual. You should really stop blithering about things you don't actually know anything about. Stop spreading the BS.
Please feel free to post up the mathematical calculations, which suggest something like a DT230 (non streamlined in other words), will reach 100mph with only 20bhp?..................Guess we will be waiting just about as long as your answer to the question, as to why very thin autolube oil, is better to use in a pre-mix bike, than an oil designed for pre-mix use?
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Old 07-10-2013, 12:28 AM   #27
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theoretically, twice as fast needs 8 times as much power. ponder that for a while.

Please feel free to post up the supporting mathematical theory for that....................which you must be familiar with as you seem certain 20bhp will mean 100mph?

While you are at it, I still dont know the reason why I should be using a very thin autolube oil in my pre-mix bike, rather than an oil specifically designed for pre-mix use..............maybe you could explain please?
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Old 07-10-2013, 03:44 AM   #28
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I used a Silkolene oil in my DT230...it was suitable for premix or injector, and the DT230 has a pump.
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Old 07-10-2013, 04:30 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Twin-shocker View Post
Please feel free to post up the supporting mathematical theory for that....................which you must be familiar with as you seem certain 20bhp will mean 100mph?

While you are at it, I still dont know the reason why I should be using a very thin autolube oil in my pre-mix bike, rather than an oil specifically designed for pre-mix use..............maybe you could explain please?
if you want to argue, start another thread. i'm not going to get back into the oil thing, i thought that was done.
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Old 07-10-2013, 08:37 AM   #30
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yes! just when i was beginning to miss the premix thread...
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