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Old 07-28-2013, 09:20 PM   #901
Disco Stu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneTraveler View Post
As for my comment about pricing for service, it follows a logic such that, if you buy a KLR, for example, it's a simple bike. It doesn't need huge overly complicated services to keep it running (except maybe the doohickey) and as such should in no way cost $100/hour + to maintain. A R1200RT is another story, same for the Concours 14, and so on.
I have to completely disagree here. if you're paying someone $100/hour, you should not be paying them that rate based upon the type of bike, but based upon their skill level.

Since you say a KLR is a simple type bike, it stands to reason that what might take 6 hours on a 1200RT should only take 3 hours on a KLR. But just because the bike is 'simpler' doesn't mean the mechanic needs to be 'simpler'. He should just be able to do the job quicker.
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Old 07-28-2013, 09:32 PM   #902
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Originally Posted by OaklandStrom View Post
I am having the exact opposite experience right now. My aunt bought a '12 Subaru Impreza with all the goodies, plus extended warranty and a prepaid maint contract. She recently died, and the estate owes 29k to the bank even though she made 6 months of payments. If we're lucky, we can get 22 or 23 for it.

I'd be thrilled if we only lost $600 on it.
You're actually agreeing with me. Most used vehicles are being sold for what's owed, not what they are worth, which after being driven off the lot is not a lot less than new. That was my point. The point being countered is that there is considerable depreciation as soon as it's driven off the lot, and therefor it pays to buy used. It's not my experience.

If your aunt hadn't died and wanted to sell her vehicle now, she wouldn't sell it for $22k or $23k if she owed $29k. So, the person wanting to save a bunch could buy a new vehicle for only slightly more than a "used" vehicle for $29k. Your case is the exception, not the rule.
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Old 07-29-2013, 12:25 AM   #903
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OaklandStrom View Post
I am having the exact opposite experience right now. My aunt bought a '12 Subaru Impreza with all the goodies, plus extended warranty and a prepaid maint contract. She recently died, and the estate owes 29k to the bank even though she made 6 months of payments. If we're lucky, we can get 22 or 23 for it.

I'd be thrilled if we only lost $600 on it.
Your Aunt probably financed the sales tax and the title and license fees. It's also likely that the extended warranty and maint contract have only a fraction of the value that was paid for them (assuming they are even transferrable.) Finally, if she was in the habit of buying a new car regularly she might have owed more on the trade-in than it was worth, so that amount would have been rolled into the loan, possibly even along with something to pay off any other outstanding debts so that the lender would agree to the loan. All of these things can contribute to borrowing more than a vehicle is worth. To be $6K or $7K upside-down on a $29K purchase after only 6 months is not at all unusual. It's a consequence of lenders meeting people's desire to "have it now", whether they have the money or not.

None of the above is meant to disparage your Aunt's judgement or motives. It's just the way it works.
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Old 07-29-2013, 12:36 AM   #904
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disco Stu View Post
I have to completely disagree here. if you're paying someone $100/hour, you should not be paying them that rate based upon the type of bike, but based upon their skill level.

Since you say a KLR is a simple type bike, it stands to reason that what might take 6 hours on a 1200RT should only take 3 hours on a KLR. But just because the bike is 'simpler' doesn't mean the mechanic needs to be 'simpler'. He should just be able to do the job quicker.
...but you are not paying the person $100 per hour, you are paying the shop $100 per hour, quite likely for work performed on a fixed price due the the number of hours Kawasaki (or whomever) says a job should take. A good tech will do the job faster, thereby earning the shop (and himself) more money per hour, whereas a new/poor/slow tech might take longer. The cost to the customer is the same either way. It's only a rip off if you are being charged actual time and the job is being performed by a slow tech, or worse, by the shop hand.
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Old 07-29-2013, 07:32 AM   #905
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OaklandStrom View Post
I am having the exact opposite experience right now. My aunt bought a '12 Subaru Impreza with all the goodies, plus extended warranty and a prepaid maint contract. She recently died, and the estate owes 29k to the bank even though she made 6 months of payments. If we're lucky, we can get 22 or 23 for it.

I'd be thrilled if we only lost $600 on it.
You might want to check the extended warranty and service contracts as they are sometimes refundable on a pro-rated basis. Could help you out a bit on what is still owed.

Good luck and I am sorry for the loss of your Aunt.

Rick G
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Old 07-29-2013, 08:54 AM   #906
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Heard this one today from a new Service guy:

I was talking to a client about fuel economy, and she was telling me about how her 2002 van wasn't getting the greatest fuel economy. She gave me the stats: 200 miles per tank. Now that sounds really bad, so I pulled out my phone to use the calculator on it... and told her how bad of mileage her old, very high mileage van was getting.

The newer, young service guy had walked up during this conversation and overheard what we were talking about. He pipes in, "and I can see why you're getting such bad fuel economy - you've got oil leaks everywhere. Oil is leaking from the valve cover gaskets, from the oil pan, and from (I forget what he said here, but he either spoke about the oil pump or water pump).

...

Thank goodness she had a husband she said she'd have to defer the question of maintenance towards. Didn't make any sense to me either.

But oil seepage = bad fuel economy... let it be known.
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Old 07-29-2013, 09:21 AM   #907
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mambo Dave View Post
But oil seepage = bad fuel economy... let it be known.
Wouldn't all that oil allow the van to slip thru the air better
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Old 07-29-2013, 09:33 AM   #908
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Wouldn't all that oil allow the van to slip thru the air better
it'd make the van lighter, too.
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Old 07-29-2013, 09:49 AM   #909
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KoolBreeze View Post
the years the few times I did take a vehicle in for work only twice did I get results that I felt were satisfactory. anything from having the wrong size oil filter crammed on a car during a simple oil change to having a variety of bolts left laying in the engine compartment during a timing belt change. I have a difficult time trusting mechanics...
The two times in my life I have paid to have an oil change done a vehicle were both botched.

1- Wal-Mart in Biloxi MS in 1992- Took my truck in for oil change and lube front end. Prior to taking it I used a permanent marker and wrote my last name on the current filter. Went inside to buy a few things while they did the work. Twenty minutes go by and they call my name over PA system that vehicle is ready. I go pay for it. Proceed to parking lot and my truck is in the same spot it was when i parked it. Popped the hood and checked the filter, not changed. Looked underneath at the ball joints. Everyone of them still had the old crusted up grease on them. Went back inside and asked for the store manager, they wanted to know why. "Get me the Store manager". he finally comes out and asks what the problem is. Well, let's see. Your Service Dept basically just stole from me. And told him what happened. He came out and took a look. He said he would refund my money and have them do the work free. I said only if I'm standing there watching them do this time...

2- Jiffy Lube in San Antonio TX in 1997-- I had just had the engine rebuilt in my truck and the rebuilder required that the first oil change after rebuild be done by a shop to keep the warranty. So when the time came I took it to a Jiffy Lube. I sat outside and watched them do it. When I went in to pay I looked at the bill and they were trying to charge me for like 8qts of oil. UMMM, dude the truck only hold 6qts NOT 8. He said "well it must have an oil cooler on it. UMMM no, I've had this truck for 5 years and I normally do the oil change myself and I KNOW it only holds 6 NOT 8. And if your guy put 8 in there you best be draining two of them out because if you blow my engine you WILL BE buying a new one. I would not leave until they drained it and I watched them put in only 6.


A co-worker of mine took his Toyota to a shop because it was throwing a code. Not sure what they did but it was to the tune of over $1000. Later that day as we were heading to an outlying location the light came back on. He mentioned it to me and said he had called the shop while driving and they said if it was back on that it must be this other issue as well and that would cost about $800 to fix. I told him to pop the hood. I took a look and not just one but two sensor wires had not been reconnected. I reconnected them and on his way home the light went out and did not come back on...

This is why I do as much work myself as I can. If I haven't done it before I research it and ask those that have for guidance.
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Old 07-30-2013, 09:24 AM   #910
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acesandeights View Post
You're actually agreeing with me. Most used vehicles are being sold for what's owed, not what they are worth, which after being driven off the lot is not a lot less than new. That was my point. The point being countered is that there is considerable depreciation as soon as it's driven off the lot, and therefor it pays to buy used. It's not my experience.

If your aunt hadn't died and wanted to sell her vehicle now, she wouldn't sell it for $22k or $23k if she owed $29k. So, the person wanting to save a bunch could buy a new vehicle for only slightly more than a "used" vehicle for $29k. Your case is the exception, not the rule.
I'm not agreeing with you.
Your opinion is that near new cars and bikes sell for near new prices.
My opinion is that there's this thing called "depreciation" which makes your new car or bike worth thousands less the day you buy it.

You can ask any price you want for a used car. It doesn't count as a sale until cash exchanges hands.

You want depreciation? I recently bought an '08 F150 with 45,000 miles.
It's a stripper V6 with a 5 speed. It's really clean, with one very minor door ding. It probably stickered for $20,000.

I paid $7,800 from a private party.
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Old 07-30-2013, 09:44 AM   #911
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Your examples were a near new vehicle that costs near new. Your second example is not a near new vehicle (5 years, which happens to be the number of years I used) costing significantly less than new. That's agreeing with me.
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Old 07-30-2013, 09:57 AM   #912
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Your examples were a near new vehicle that costs near new. Your second example is not a near new vehicle (5 years, which happens to be the number of years I used) costing significantly less than new. That's agreeing with me.
Holy shit. Your desire to be right is amazing. You sound like my wife.

Yes dear, whatever...
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Old 07-30-2013, 10:04 AM   #913
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Haha, you're a real hoot. You keep telling me you don't agree and give examples that support what I say. Your wife must be a very understanding person, or you have a lot of money.

Edited to add: By the way, I don't mind being wrong, and maybe I am in this case. You just keep supporting what I wrote initially. Maybe we're both wrong.
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Old 07-30-2013, 10:05 AM   #914
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wlfman View Post
The two times in my life I have paid to have an oil change done a vehicle were both botched.

1- Wal-Mart in Biloxi MS in 1992-

2- Jiffy Lube in San Antonio TX in 1997-
The fact that those two places would do shoddy work is simply astounding!
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Old 07-30-2013, 10:19 AM   #915
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I just had a great conversation with Larson’s Cycle service department, who is a KTM dealer. I have almost run out of fuel twice now as I have not received a low fuel warning light on the dash. Doing some research online (mainly the KTM SMT forum), I read several instances of the same issue with the 2010’s and the fix was that the Reserve fuel indicator 62612045000 was not installed from the factory. I was wondering if this was my issue so I called service to see if they had heard of the issue.

Here is how the conversation went. I explained that I had bought the leftover SMT this past fall from them and he responded with what’s that? I said 2010 KTM SMT. He said he had a bad phone and asked me to hold on while he changed phones.

He got back on and I explained what I had again. His response was “Is that one of the Chinese made bikes”. I said no, it’s a KTM. Do you know what that is. “yes”.

Great, it’s an SMT, do you know what that is. “ummm...NO...”. After a few seconds of silence, he said “is that one of those supermotard things?” By this time I knew we weren’t going to have a productive conversation, and I told him never mind, good by and hung up.

The bike is still under warranty, but I can’t see bringing it in to have work done when the service department doesn’t even know what it is. I will pull the tank and pump myself and see if it’s missing. If it is, I'll pay the $118 and will order one from KTM Twins or one of the other online sights. I sent the owner of the place an email. Nice guy and he actually sold me the bike.

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