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Old 08-18-2013, 07:28 PM   #1
longhaul747 OP
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I love Fuel Injection

I had one of those moments today that made me really appreciate fuel injection. Wanted to take my Reflex 250 out for a spin. It had been parked for about 2 weeks and usually this is not a problem. Went to start it and it sputtered for a second then died. Then I tried to crank it several times and nothing. Placed it on the charger to keep the battery up and figured it might start if I let it sit for 15 minutes or so. I tried again and it sputtered and turned over at about 500 rpm's then died. Tried to restart again but nothing.

Heck with this so took out the NGK plug and it was gas fouled. I also checked the gap and it was fine. I thought about drying it out and trying again but I remembered I had a spare plug so I just installed a new one. After installing the new plug it fired up quickly and has been fine all day.

Now I know a lot of people don't like fuel injection and say its expensive to repair etc etc. However its just so much easier to work with. Anything fuel injected will usually fire quickly even after sitting for month(s) and be mostly drama free. I can't say its impossible to fowl a plug with fuel injection but its far more rare. I don't know how many times I have had a bad start situation requiring a plug replacement. Also some carbureted bikes just don't want to come to life if they sit any length of time not to mention the risk of contamination dirtying up the carb.

I know carburetors have advantages and may be more reliable and easier to fix. However in my experience Fuel Injection has never let me down and it is far better on a daily basis then carburetors.
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Old 08-18-2013, 07:43 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by longhaul747 View Post
I had one of those moments today that made me really appreciate fuel injection. Wanted to take my Reflex 250 out for a spin. It had been parked for about 2 weeks and usually this is not a problem. Went to start it and it sputtered for a second then died. Then I tried to crank it several times and nothing. Placed it on the charger to keep the battery up and figured it might start if I let it sit for 15 minutes or so. I tried again and it sputtered and turned over at about 500 rpm's then died. Tried to restart again but nothing.

Heck with this so took out the NGK plug and it was gas fouled. I also checked the gap and it was fine. I thought about drying it out and trying again but I remembered I had a spare plug so I just installed a new one. After installing the new plug it fired up quickly and has been fine all day.

Now I know a lot of people don't like fuel injection and say its expensive to repair etc etc. However its just so much easier to work with. Anything fuel injected will usually fire quickly even after sitting for month(s) and be mostly drama free. I can't say its impossible to fowl a plug with fuel injection but its far more rare. I don't know how many times I have had a bad start situation requiring a plug replacement. Also some carbureted bikes just don't want to come to life if they sit any length of time not to mention the risk of contamination dirtying up the carb.

I know carburetors have advantages and may be more reliable and easier to fix. However in my experience Fuel Injection has never let me down and it is far better on a daily basis then carburetors.
Carburetors are generally easier to fix, but they are NOT more reliable. Anyone who claims they are more reliable is ignoring the very common clogged jet issues after sitting, sunken floats, vacuum leaks, split diaphragms, and other things I'm probably forgetting.
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Old 08-18-2013, 08:15 PM   #3
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Carburetors are generally easier to fix, but they are NOT more reliable. Anyone who claims they are more reliable is ignoring the very common clogged jet issues after sitting, sunken floats, vacuum leaks, split diaphragms, and other things I'm probably forgetting.
\

http://www.popsci.com last most had a post about One guy whom bringing fuel injection to any 300 cc 1 lung engine. Think the price point in under 30 bucks wholesale . To start with there going to target makers of things like genarators etc . It's a simple as unbolt and attach fuel line. Everything is there. Cant find the name of the prodcut or the youtube video. But if it happens it going to be a cool thing
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Old 08-18-2013, 08:24 PM   #4
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Carburetors are generally easier to fix, but they are NOT more reliable. Anyone who claims they are more reliable is ignoring the very common clogged jet issues after sitting, sunken floats, vacuum leaks, split diaphragms, and other things I'm probably forgetting.
Yeah and they are not exactly cheap to fix either. Granted this is being taken by service departments but a lot of shops have this attitude that you should have used a fuel stabilizer or road it more etc etc kind of attitude so if you go in with a carb issue they jack you up. They are easier to work on and diagnose but not necessarily any cheaper.

One thing that happens to me with any carbed bike and luckily its rare thing is occasionally I will get an odd situation when the bike just won't start choke on or off. It can happen on a lot of carbed bikes if it has been recently ridden and then you let it sit for 20 to 30 minutes depending on ambient temperature. Usually the cure is just to wait another 10 to 15 minutes for the engine to cool down more and then it will fire right up.

My KLX250S witch is known for spotty carbs is right about 78F it does not want to start from stone cold choke on or off. If the temperature drops a few degrees it will fire instantly with the choke on and if it warms up a few degrees more it will fire without any choke. But right about 78F its temporally out of commission.

My Concours is particularly odd bike. During the summer it can sit for a full month and fire on the first or second crank. Usually choke is required all the time unless its in the high 80's. However during the winter if it sits for more then 3 days you have to really nurse it to get it to fire and heaven for bid if something goes wrong you will fowl a plug(s). I have had to replace them a few times over the years.

If carbs are set up correctly and well tuned plus everything else being right they can work pretty well. Usually my Reflex is pretty good. If it sits more then about 3 weeks it will usually require an additional crank just to prime the carb but for some reason not today. It looks like its a common problem on the Reflex to have a bad start fowling the plug if the plug has aged. So in my case it was probably just a tall tale sign I need to replace the plug witch I did.
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Old 08-18-2013, 10:17 PM   #5
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I hate fuel injection. My problem with it is the cost of the electronic parts, and the fact that most owners cannot work on it. Almost anybody can clean a carb. And if it is going to set for awhile, simply drain the carb. My Vino 125 (carbed) and Zuma 125 (FI) both start right up. I replaced the plug on the Vino at around 20,000 miles, just because. The Zuma has about $700 worth of electronic parts the Vino doesn't have. I took a chance buying it, everybody says these parts do not fail. If they do, this scooter will go away.
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Old 08-19-2013, 04:50 AM   #6
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I hate fuel injection. My problem with it is the cost of the electronic parts, and the fact that most owners cannot work on it. Almost anybody can clean a carb. And if it is going to set for awhile, simply drain the carb. My Vino 125 (carbed) and Zuma 125 (FI) both start right up. I replaced the plug on the Vino at around 20,000 miles, just because. The Zuma has about $700 worth of electronic parts the Vino doesn't have. I took a chance buying it, everybody says these parts do not fail. If they do, this scooter will go away.
Have you ever considered bicycling? The cost of entry and maintenance costs are much less burdensome. They haven't yet found a way to saddle them with those damned ABS brakes either.
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Old 08-19-2013, 04:54 AM   #7
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Have you ever considered bicycling? The cost of entry and maintenance costs are much less burdensome. They haven't yet found a way to saddle them with those damned ABS brakes either.






But...But...But...They have tube tires, right?
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Old 08-19-2013, 06:29 AM   #8
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But...But...But...They have tube tires, right?
Many of the new bikes use tubeless tires. You can even convert older rims to tubeless.
So much for that.
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Old 08-19-2013, 08:04 AM   #9
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Have you ever considered bicycling? The cost of entry and maintenance costs are much less burdensome. They haven't yet found a way to saddle them with those damned ABS brakes either.
No centerstand
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Old 08-19-2013, 09:02 AM   #10
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I love fuel injection, but when the solar flares come or an EMP attack happens I'll pull out my trusty Vespa and with it's tube tires, drum brakes, no valves to adjust, carb not FI and.....oh wait, oh no, it has 'electronic ignition'! I'm sunk by technology yet again!
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Old 08-19-2013, 10:35 AM   #11
JerryH
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Actually my scooters cost less than a really good bicycle, and are cheaper to maintain. High dollar bicycles are really finicky. ABS on bikes? It will happen. They already have disc brakes (even though rim brakes are already a type of disc, and the disc is a lot larger) and as was said, tubeless tires, though they are very unreliable.

But I am puzzled by the reaction to my post. Somebody else makes a thread exactly the same as my post, with just one word different, then proceeds to describe how his FI scooter DIDN'T start up right away, like they are supposed to, and nobody complains. I then post my exactly opposite opinion, and give good sound reasons for it, and also explain how my carbed bikes (includung 2 nearly identical Yamaha scooters, one FI, the other carbed) BOTH start up right away with no issues, and everybody makes a big deal out of it. It definitely shows the bias on this forum.
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Old 08-19-2013, 10:49 AM   #12
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But I am puzzled by the reaction to my post.

It definitely shows the bias on this forum.


If you would leave all of you negative random thoughts about bikes you have never owned, or will ever own, you may get a different reaction.

We know tat you don't like tube tires...let it rest.
We know that any bike or scooter mentioned, you would buy...........but ( fill in the blank ).
Have a nice day.
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Old 08-19-2013, 10:57 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Dabears View Post
I love fuel injection, but when the solar flares come or an EMP attack happens I'll pull out my trusty Vespa and with it's tube tires, drum brakes, no valves to adjust, carb not FI and.....oh wait, oh no, it has 'electronic ignition'! I'm sunk by technology yet again!
The oil refineries will be off line. Bicycle, oh wait, tires and tubes need petroleum too. Foot or horse.

Rod
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Old 08-19-2013, 01:07 PM   #14
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Actually my scooters cost less than a really good bicycle, and are cheaper to maintain. High dollar bicycles are really finicky. ABS on bikes? It will happen. They already have disc brakes (even though rim brakes are already a type of disc, and the disc is a lot larger) and as was said, tubeless tires, though they are very unreliable.

But I am puzzled by the reaction to my post. Somebody else makes a thread exactly the same as my post, with just one word different, then proceeds to describe how his FI scooter DIDN'T start up right away, like they are supposed to, and nobody complains. I then post my exactly opposite opinion, and give good sound reasons for it, and also explain how my carbed bikes (includung 2 nearly identical Yamaha scooters, one FI, the other carbed) BOTH start up right away with no issues, and everybody makes a big deal out of it. It definitely shows the bias on this forum.
You're only puzzled because you don't get that everyone has heard your shtick a thousand times, and they are tired of it. Once you figure that out and stop bludgeoning everyone with your repetitive streams of consciousness you'll be received more warmly. Until then you are reaping what you've sown.
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Old 08-19-2013, 03:27 PM   #15
Dranrab Luap
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Actually my scooters cost less than a really good bicycle, and are cheaper to maintain. High dollar bicycles are really finicky. ABS on bikes? It will happen. They already have disc brakes (even though rim brakes are already a type of disc, and the disc is a lot larger) and as was said, tubeless tires, though they are very unreliable.

But I am puzzled by the reaction to my post. Somebody else makes a thread exactly the same as my post, with just one word different, then proceeds to describe how his FI scooter DIDN'T start up right away, like they are supposed to, and nobody complains. I then post my exactly opposite opinion, and give good sound reasons for it, and also explain how my carbed bikes (includung 2 nearly identical Yamaha scooters, one FI, the other carbed) BOTH start up right away with no issues, and everybody makes a big deal out of it. It definitely shows the bias on this forum.
Perhaps you should take pause to consider why that is. Could it be that the other poster doesn't have a history of spewing the same tired bile over and over and over and over and over again?

Oh, and high dollar bicycles are finicky? Educate me please. This should be fun.
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