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Old 08-16-2013, 01:06 PM   #1381
Redclayrider
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From last nights GP8;

Yamahamer's Birthday GP8 Bash from harvie woolley on Vimeo.

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Old 08-16-2013, 03:03 PM   #1382
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thanks man !

we had a good turn out, I rode (ok, failed at riding) a royal enfield, with left side brake and right side gp shift, and man was it confusing.


mark had a birthday, and he's still solid gold.


good times hanging out with some realllllly good folks.
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Old 08-18-2013, 05:35 AM   #1383
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Question

Hi, I've spent a weeks or so slowly reading through the whole thread (its very good).

I'm over in England and managed to attend the Cumbria Experience day, there's even a photo of me on the motogymkhana.org site, I'm on the GSX-R.

Since then I've been slowly practicing getting to full lock and as much lean as I'm comfortable with. Its coming along as well as can be expected. Once I get the hang of one part I add another and start over.

So far I've stopped using the clutch, I use front brake into turns with slight throttle and then transition to back brake while still trail braking the front slightly. I do that to stop my rear brake cooking. I managed to change the colour of the disc from shiny silver to a brown/bronze colour recently, that's when I re-evaluated my use of rear-brake only. Last time I tried GP8 I was still doing 48 seconds so REALLY slow. I'll have to try again soon as I think I'm quicker now, I was just constant throttling before and wasn't using the front brake, or getting full lock.

I wanted to ask people if my thought process is correct regarding this video:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Motogymkhanaman View Post
Wise words from Jezza!

Of course, it's not possible to counter-steer the bike if the steering is at full-lock so we have to use the throttle and brake combination to steer the bike instead.

To see this technique in action check out Sakuta-san as he negotiates a rotation turn.

As I see it (please point out if I'm wrong),

First 5 seconds, speed above 15mph so just turning bike via lean but braking to slow down below the "counter steer only"-speed.

6 second mark moved into "slow" steering zone, front wheel starts to turn right until full lock is achieved.

9 seconds full lock is achieved.

10-11 seconds back brake eased off and bike stands up a little, still in full lock though and turning round cone - (what speed would you estimate he's going?)

12-30 seconds, front and rear brake to prevent throttle/idle speed taking him off optimal cornering line. Also twisty head movement to prevent dizziness and also spin body to keep full lock on handlebars (looks weird and feels it but does seem to work from what I've tried)

31-32 seconds, open up throttle and tail off brakes to power out of turn and onto next obstacle.


I'd like to know which brake is favored. I'm guessing front to slow down while getting into full lock, then transition over to back? Or does he trail brake the front all the way through the rotation? Can't really tell from the video, wish he was wearing hi-vis gloves. I also wish they had a different colour brake lights for rear and front brakes - just to help me figure out what they are doing.
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Old 08-18-2013, 10:44 AM   #1384
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Hiya NME, whereabouts in Cumbria are you?
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Old 08-18-2013, 07:22 PM   #1385
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Originally Posted by Big Lee View Post
Hiya NME, whereabouts in Cumbria are you?
A town made famous by a monster eating our bus depot. If you don't know about the Chewits advert from years gone by, Barrow-in-Furness.
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Old 08-19-2013, 03:42 AM   #1386
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Hi there NMEof, glad you enjoyed the Moto Gymkhana experience up in sunny Cumbria! Good that you have analysed the slo-mo video of Sakuta-san in action, but it's important to realise that how he does things are the result of years of practice and like all Class A riders, he had to start out by practicing very basic stuff over and over again until they became second nature.

The fantastic rotation turn we see in the video requires a deep knowledge of all the elements of the bikes performance envelope and the particular control inputs that will achieve the maximum rates of change in any of the performance parameters.

The video has probably been slowed down by ten times from real time so the 26 seconds it takes on the video for him to complete one 360 rotation will take only 2.6 seconds in reality. There is absolutely no chance for any of us to be able to do so much in so little time without these actions being fully automatic so rather than attempting to copy what Sakuta-san does, it is much better to work on some basics and build from there.

Mr Kimura tells us that "If you try and go fast, you will end up going slow", so we must practice things very gently at first otherwise we will end up with 'blued' brake disks (rotors) and all sorts of other undesireable effects! The rotation turn is the ultimate expression of the skill of the Moto Gymkhana rider and competitions are often won and lost by the slightest errors in the performance of these turns.

Why not start out by trying to nail the standing start U turn (or Terror Turn) this gets you used to all sorts of interesting responses to your control inputs as well as saving your precious brake fluid! The rotation turn is basically a Terror Turn that is continued through 360 degrees, but try starting with making only a 20-30 degree change of direction and build up from there.

Here is a little video of a Japanese bike cop doing the Terror Turn. Watch and learn!



Once you have watched this a few times, take a look at the video of Noboru Yoshino doing a very quick GP8 and you will see that he is linking Terror Turns together with a bit of a straight inbetween.

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Old 08-19-2013, 05:32 AM   #1387
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Hi Motogymkhanaman.

I really enjoyed the experience day. Hopefully Neil will be able to start up the northern club soon, which is when I'll become a member of your organisation well, if you let me...

Those "Terror" turns are impressive. I'm obviously nowhere near that standard yet. My bike's manual states it has a 3.4m turning circle, I've can only do it in about 5.5m. Better than before I started practicing but still a long way shy. Even that is cheating as I use idle in 2nd gear to prevent my throttle hand from unintentionally adding speed as I tip the bike and turn the bars. Its frustratingly addictive to try to get the turn tighter. One day... (maybe, in the distant future)

I've got no illusions of being able to watch a slo-mo video and then reproduce it step for step, I was just curious, I have "one of those" minds that likes to know exactly how things work.

At the moment I'm still just happy about being able to do u-turns without duck walking. One up on my friends who didn't bother attending your event.

One last thing, any news on the book you mentioned far back in the history of this thread?

NMEof screwed with this post 08-19-2013 at 06:30 AM Reason: missed the word "turns" the first time round
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Old 08-19-2013, 08:17 AM   #1388
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that second video was something mike (or local guru) was talking about last Thursday. he nailed it a few times, and it was painfully easy to see where we had been trying to go fast, instead of just turning the right way, like the video.

after a few tries of getting the turn right, its easy to feel there may be time shaved off a run, but the habit of how I've been doing it creeps in again. more practice is needed. yay !
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Old 08-19-2013, 08:04 PM   #1389
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San Diego Riders UNITE!!!!
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Old 08-19-2013, 08:26 PM   #1390
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San Diego Riders UNITE!!!!
Its time.

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Old 08-19-2013, 08:28 PM   #1391
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Just need to setup a date to recon a lot.


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Old 08-20-2013, 07:07 AM   #1392
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I got some really nice clips on my YouTube subscription wall this week. Here is just a couple of them. Really fast riders and a joy to watch.



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Old 08-21-2013, 05:12 PM   #1393
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Great videos. Would you guys that are experienced gymkhana riders say that learning these skills would help, hurt, or not matter for your dirt riding? I have really been focusing on dirt skills which has helped my street ability, but it doesn't seem to work the other way around.

And yeah, SD guys, it's time to find a lot somewhere.
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Old 08-21-2013, 09:12 PM   #1394
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepinbanditrider View Post
Just need to setup a date to recon a lot.


Sent from my iPhone
Execute SD unification protocols stat!
Sunday? Mid-County meet-up ? Have bike, will travel.
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Old 08-21-2013, 09:15 PM   #1395
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Originally Posted by Shooby View Post
Execute SD unification protocols stat!
Sunday? Mid-County meet-up ? Have bike, will travel.
I'm down. Sunday sounds good just setup a time and place I am not familiar with this area at all.


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