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Old 09-02-2013, 06:21 PM   #16
NJ-Brett
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Its been 40 years since I worked on one, so I really know nothing about them, but you need to make sure you get a spark on the cylinder that is on the compression stroke.
Remove valve covers, turn engine till the valves are closed, turn the crank till the points open and you get spark and make sure the valves are closed.

On my old Triumphs, you had to have the timing quite close for it to start.
After it was running, you could change the timing quite a bit and it still ran, but for it to start, it had to be quite close.

Make sure the mechanical advance is working right.

Then there is the carb/gas/choke setup...

When I have done compression checks in the past, I have often gotten readings all over the place, much depends on cranking speed, throttle open, valve lash, if the engine has sat a while and the rings are not seated....

I do not bother anymore, it it smokes like crazy and does not stop it needs work. if it does not smoke and idles nice, it does not.
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Old 09-02-2013, 06:22 PM   #17
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So - got home a did few things...

First off, tried to verify the timing using a volt meter set for continuity.

I couldn't get it spot on; I have it cranked as far as I can, and now the points plate itself is hitting the threaded bolt holder thingy. Check it out here -



Can you see it? It won't let me scroll it back any further, and it's still not where it should be. What's that mean? You can tell how far back it's been scrolled - look at that timing mark setup on the upper side of the points plate. WAY back, and still isn't breaking continuity until between the LF and LT marks on the flywheel. That can't be good.

Anyhow, after I got it as close as I could, I dropped a few drops of gasoline down the cyls and spun her over - still nothing.

Pulled the plugs and tested for spark once again - and found nothing. I grounded the spark plug against the cylinder head and spun it over....but no spark. This was working fine the last time I checked it, but now there's no spark. Where should I go now?

It's amazingly simple in there; I can't believe that it's been this hard to dial in.

Any thoughts?
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Old 09-02-2013, 06:37 PM   #18
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It's kind of hard to tell just where the high spot on the points cam really is.

I may be completely blind - but it's not as obvious as I would think, honestly.

This may be where the hole is...
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Old 09-02-2013, 07:06 PM   #19
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Can't help on the adjustment as I've been lucky enough to avoid having to reset the points plate. Have you check the resistance at the plug caps? I'm pretty sure you can use zero ohm caps to maybe 1 ohm on the SL. Pop them off the wire and read with meter set to ohms. Anything above 1 is too much resistance and can cause the no start problem.
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Old 09-02-2013, 08:25 PM   #20
NJ-Brett
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You get spark when the points open, and if they do not open or close all the way, you will not get spark.

I think the advance gizmo sits on a pin on the cam shaft.
If the cam timing is right, at the correct timing mark, one set of points should just start opening on the compression stoke on that cylinder.

You have an unknown, so I would make sure the cam timing is correct, the advance gizmo is on its locating pin, then set the timing by the book.

Remember, there are two tdc points, one with every crank revolution, and only one works (the compression one).
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Old 09-02-2013, 08:40 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ-Brett View Post
You get spark when the points open, and if they do not open or close all the way, you will not get spark.

I think the advance gizmo sits on a pin on the cam shaft.
If the cam timing is right, at the correct timing mark, one set of points should just start opening on the compression stoke on that cylinder.

You have an unknown, so I would make sure the cam timing is correct, the advance gizmo is on its locating pin, then set the timing by the book.

Remember, there are two tdc points, one with every crank revolution, and only one works (the compression one).

Well, not sure what to do with this info just yet. I'm still chewing on it.

Where would you start, then? Pop off the points plate, and verify that the cam timing is on track?
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Old 09-02-2013, 10:02 PM   #22
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I do not think the bob weight have any chance to stay open... If they are stuck it is certainly in their resting position which the one you want to start the bike. Are the plugs wet after you kicked repeatedly? If not your idle jets are plugged at the minimum. You should take your carbs off and rebuild them, cleaning them completely. You did not say if it was a K0 (CV carbs) or a K1/K2... I have a K1 and this the problem I have when it does not start after a long time it is what I am doing...
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Old 09-02-2013, 10:29 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prmurat View Post
I do not think the bob weight have any chance to stay open... If they are stuck it is certainly in their resting position which the one you want to start the bike. Are the plugs wet after you kicked repeatedly? If not your idle jets are plugged at the minimum. You should take your carbs off and rebuild them, cleaning them completely. You did not say if it was a K0 (CV carbs) or a K1/K2... I have a K1 and this the problem I have when it does not start after a long time it is what I am doing...

The carbs very well might need a good cleaning/rebuilding, but that still doestn't address the no spark, correct? I'll never know what my carbs are doing if there's no spark.

I dropped fuel right down the cylinders and she still didn't fire. Soemthing with the spark isn't right at this point. That's what I'm working on now.

If I can get her to fire, then I'll address the carbs. That make sense?
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Old 09-03-2013, 05:11 AM   #24
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Yes, it will run FINE on that compression number. It isn't hard to troubleshoot spark now. Clean points? Fine emery cloth then washed with solvent and business card? battery well topped up? Wires NOT shorted? Fuses good? voltage AT points? Kill switch and wiring(contacts corrode, wires get pinched, unplugged)? Spark before but not now is called intermittent, probably gonna be points. My comment about too much ether was based on HAVING spark. Too much can be too rich to fire. All the fire and brimstone stories of ether are pretty trumped up, unless a person has NO knowledge of science, fire safety, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cptmoney View Post
So - got home a did few things...

First off, tried to verify the timing using a volt meter set for continuity.

I couldn't get it spot on; I have it cranked as far as I can, and now the points plate itself is hitting the threaded bolt holder thingy. Check it out here -



Can you see it? It won't let me scroll it back any further, and it's still not where it should be. What's that mean? You can tell how far back it's been scrolled - look at that timing mark setup on the upper side of the points plate. WAY back, and still isn't breaking continuity until between the LF and LT marks on the flywheel. That can't be good.

Anyhow, after I got it as close as I could, I dropped a few drops of gasoline down the cyls and spun her over - still nothing.

Pulled the plugs and tested for spark once again - and found nothing. I grounded the spark plug against the cylinder head and spun it over....but no spark. This was working fine the last time I checked it, but now there's no spark. Where should I go now?

It's amazingly simple in there; I can't believe that it's been this hard to dial in.

Any thoughts?
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Old 09-03-2013, 05:47 AM   #25
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I once fixed a friends 350 Honda, someone had put the points cam on 180 degrees out, with the advance unit in your hand if you advance it, the cam will pull off and can go back on in the wrong position. just a thought.
if you have fuel, spark and compression it will run, but they must be all at the correct time, good luck
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Old 09-03-2013, 07:11 AM   #26
NJ-Brett
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Yes, with a bike I got that did not run, I would check everything before even trying to start the bike.
Valve timing, valve lash, wire harness condition, clean the carb float bowls, clean the petcock bowl/filter, set the ignition timing, change the oil, then try and start the bike.

For no spark, check for voltage at the points (with points open).
Power should go from battery, to key/kill switch, to coils, to points, to ground. When the points open, the field in the coil collapses, you get spark.

Once running, you will want to strobe the timing on each cylinder.





Quote:
Originally Posted by cptmoney View Post
Well, not sure what to do with this info just yet. I'm still chewing on it.

Where would you start, then? Pop off the points plate, and verify that the cam timing is on track?
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Old 09-04-2013, 09:22 AM   #27
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I didn't get to mess with any of it last night; just too much going on. Likely the same this evening.

I have checked the valve lash. Things were a bit tight there, so I've rectified that - I BELIEVE. I'll double check it, but I think I'm good there.

I like the 180 degrees out of time option as well. Makes sense why the voodoo is happening the way it is. I'll have to check it all out.
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Old 09-05-2013, 04:42 AM   #28
concours
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cptmoney View Post
I didn't get to mess with any of it last night; just too much going on. Likely the same this evening.

I have checked the valve lash. Things were a bit tight there, so I've rectified that - I BELIEVE. I'll double check it, but I think I'm good there.

I like the 180 degrees out of time option as well. Makes sense why the voodoo is happening the way it is. I'll have to check it all out.
This isn't voodoo, it's shop class 101. IF the thing was firing 180 off, you get popping/backfiring and SOME sign of life while trying to start it. As I read, you got NU-THING. Get the plugs firing outside the cylinders FIRST, then try starting it before diving into something else. If you do this, the benefit to you will be not (possibly) having MORE than one missing element to troubleshoot. Keep checking in, we'll get you there.
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Old 02-20-2014, 03:20 PM   #29
cptmoney OP
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Getting sunny out here - time to get this old dog back on her feet.

Let me take a moment to review where I left off...be right back! I'll have many questions, I'm sure...
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Old 02-20-2014, 08:39 PM   #30
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Utube has a lot of how to set points videos for CB, Sl, CL 350's, the CB was probably the most popular of the series and all the motors were identicle.
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