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Old 10-14-2013, 08:24 PM   #181
The_Precious_Juice
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Thanks for sharing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by techgeek View Post
I have a R1200GSA and a Super Tenere. They each are great bikes in their own right, and they each have their own relative strengths and weaknesses.


Things I like better about the S10:
Off-road capabilities- S10 wins hands down. Bike feels much smaller and more confidence inspiring. Electronics (TC/ABS) work very well so you don't have to.


I found your comparison interesting. Good to see a owner have actual guy on the ground intel from these two bikes.

I have not ridden either bike, but would think the GSA would be better off road. I figured the P. Boxer would have a lower center of gravity.
What type of terrian do you ride? I'd only go forest road and well packed single trail.

Does the ABS, (not be able to turn off, right?) do well off road? Most reviews read that it is not a negative off road. As long as you do not go down a steep grade with a lot of speed, a rider should be fine right?

If I had to pick between the two bikes, as a noob and a very frugal person, I'd go with the economical choice for an Adventure touring ride.
The price to repair stuff is cheaper, and the locations to get repair is more frequent.
I also like how the S10 can have the seat lowered down, I'm just 5'-10" and I found the GSA hard to lift up from the kick stand.

But, I really like the GSA. She has been around for a while and also has great value.
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Old 10-14-2013, 08:39 PM   #182
pluric
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techgeek View Post
.

I'd say it's like comparing a BMW automobile to a Nissan/Infiniti. The BMW has more soul and is more fun to drive, but the Infiniti is close enough and might be a little more reliable, even if it's not as engaging to drive. Kind of like anyone who loves driving will pick the M3 over the G37, assuming adequate funds and no anti-German bias. (which somehow strangely exists..)

my two cents, which are worth exactly what you paid for it.
Interesting. I was so unimpressed with my last BMW car I couldn't wait to get rid of it.
I even traded my Porsche Cayman off on an Infiniti. I couldn't enjoy the car more.
I admit I'm not much of a car guy and probably enjoy the jap cars for the same reason
I like their bikes. Total drama free.
I did keep a Carrera just to remind me how nice $300 oil changes are.

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Old 10-14-2013, 08:57 PM   #183
VEGASGSA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Precious_Juice View Post
I also like how the S10 can have the seat lowered down, I'm just 5'-10" and I found the GSA hard to lift up from the kick stand.

But, I really like the GSA. She has been around for a while and also has great value.
The GS/GSA seat can be lowered as well..also a low seat is available..I'm 5'10" as well..use standard seat..never even considered the low seat..of course, I've never been of the mind I needed more than one foot down..maybe too many years on dirt bikes..

I have 80K on my GSA..an '08..if you think it's a decent machine simply because it's been around awhile..you are delusional..BMW has a history of not fixing anything..finals have been failing for years..electrical problems repeated for years..they hardly ever stand up and say "we fucked up"..it's always the riders fault..

Your cost of ownership over an STen, per mile, will be an order of magnitude more..HAte to say it...but simply the way it is..

Add to that the lower cost of getting in to start..and a years worth of gas and insurance is free for all intents..
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Old 10-14-2013, 09:19 PM   #184
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Happy with my S10

2 1/2 years (33,000 miles) and still a satisfied customer. My mechanical's have been 1 lost spoke nipple, 1 blown headlight and 1 burnt headlight connector (a known issue). The ownership experience has been nearly as good as the riding experience. Yamaha built an incredible machine that can transport you and yours almost anywhere. Ask Nick Sanders.

As for the TC/ABS... CW called them "class leading" even if you have to stop to change TC settings or trick the ABS into shutting itself off. I usually leave TC in 1 and shut it off for sand/mud sections.

I can't comment on the BMW as I have only sat on one but I found it too tall (I'm 5'8"), too expensive and too (percieved) fragile. The Yamaha allows me to ride more and worry less.
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Old 10-15-2013, 11:15 AM   #185
The_Precious_Juice
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Thanks for the feedback

Quote:
Originally Posted by VEGASGSA View Post
The GS/GSA seat can be lowered as well..also a low seat is available..I'm 5'10" as well..use standard seat..never even considered the low seat..of course, I've never been of the mind I needed more than one foot down..maybe too many years on dirt bikes..

I have 80K on my GSA..an '08..if you think it's a decent machine simply because it's been around awhile..you are delusional..BMW has a history of not fixing anything..finals have been failing for years..electrical problems repeated for years..they hardly ever stand up and say "we fucked up"..it's always the riders fault..

Your cost of ownership over an STen, per mile, will be an order of magnitude more..HAte to say it...but simply the way it is..

Add to that the lower cost of getting in to start..and a years worth of gas and insurance is free for all intents..

Yeah, I had hoped that a bike from 2005, and re-tooled in 2010, would be fairly reliable. I guess that delusional mind set comes from driving in cages for too many years. Seems like a vehicle would be good to go by now.

_
Thanks again for the feedback.
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Old 10-15-2013, 12:08 PM   #186
VEGASGSA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Precious_Juice View Post
Yeah, I had hoped that a bike from 2005, and re-tooled in 2010, would be fairly reliable. I guess that delusional mind set comes from driving in cages for too many years. Seems like a vehicle would be good to go by now.

_
Thanks again for the feedback.


I hate that I love mine so much...I'd love a new bike..but, danggit..I love this old thing...
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Old 10-15-2013, 12:34 PM   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Precious_Juice View Post
I found your comparison interesting. Good to see a owner have actual guy on the ground intel from these two bikes.

I have not ridden either bike, but would think the GSA would be better off road. I figured the P. Boxer would have a lower center of gravity.
What type of terrian do you ride? I'd only go forest road and well packed single trail.

Does the ABS, (not be able to turn off, right?) do well off road? Most reviews read that it is not a negative off road. As long as you do not go down a steep grade with a lot of speed, a rider should be fine right?

If I had to pick between the two bikes, as a noob and a very frugal person, I'd go with the economical choice for an Adventure touring ride.
The price to repair stuff is cheaper, and the locations to get repair is more frequent.
I also like how the S10 can have the seat lowered down, I'm just 5'-10" and I found the GSA hard to lift up from the kick stand.

But, I really like the GSA. She has been around for a while and also has great value.

I ride anything from seasonal dirt/fire roads to some snowmobile/atv trails to some more rugged sand/rocks/ditches.. Some single track too but the big bikes are tough on the narrow stuff. My skid plate is well used. If all you're doing is fire roads, both bikes are more than competent enough.

Both the ABS and traction control are excellent on the Yamaha and very unobtrusive. On particular rocky hill climb I do fairly often on both bikes I tried on the yamaha with TC off and I got stuck the first time in some deep sand. I had never gotten stuck before with it on. On the BMW, all I can smell is clutch by the time I get to the top, from working it so much.

The bmw twin does do very well too.. it pulls like a tractor. It may very well be the electronics alone that make me more confident on the S10 off road. I rode my GS in the GS Challenge up in the Catskills a couple weeks ago, and it did fine. I didn't miss the other bike, nor the electronics, at all, and that was a nice varied mix of terrain.

For a shorter rider, the S10 is probably a wise choice.
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Old 10-16-2013, 04:30 AM   #188
The_Precious_Juice
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Thanks for the feedback

Quote:
Originally Posted by techgeek View Post
I ride anything from seasonal dirt/fire roads to some snowmobile/atv trails to some more rugged sand/rocks/ditches.. Some single track too but the big bikes are tough on the narrow stuff. My skid plate is well used. If all you're doing is fire roads, both bikes are more than competent enough.

Both the ABS and traction control are excellent on the Yamaha and very unobtrusive. On particular rocky hill climb I do fairly often on both bikes I tried on the yamaha with TC off and I got stuck the first time in some deep sand. I had never gotten stuck before with it on. On the BMW, all I can smell is clutch by the time I get to the top, from working it so much.

The bmw twin does do very well too.. it pulls like a tractor. It may very well be the electronics alone that make me more confident on the S10 off road. I rode my GS in the GS Challenge up in the Catskills a couple weeks ago, and it did fine. I didn't miss the other bike, nor the electronics, at all, and that was a nice varied mix of terrain.

For a shorter rider, the S10 is probably a wise choice.
There is a brand new 2013 at the local dealer here in town, so I've been researching the S. Tenere. I'd like to purchase a left over 2013 MC this early December. I'd go touring in the new year.
From the videos and reviews I've looked at the bike does much better off-road than I thought. Yamaha actually has advertisment with the bike off road. Wow. . I'm used to the new Honda bikes that have zero off-road footage.

A constant trend I'm seeing: Riders are being suprised about how nimble the bike is once you get her going.

I'll continue to research.

Cheers.
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Old 10-16-2013, 07:26 AM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Precious_Juice View Post
There is a brand new 2013 at the local dealer here in town, so I've been researching the S. Tenere. I'd like to purchase a left over 2013 MC this early December. I'd go touring in the new year.
From the videos and reviews I've looked at the bike does much better off-road than I thought. Yamaha actually has advertisment with the bike off road. Wow. . I'm used to the new Honda bikes that have zero off-road footage.

A constant trend I'm seeing: Riders are being suprised about how nimble the bike is once you get her going.

I'll continue to research.

Cheers.
Take a fuse with you (Clutch Jumper Mod) for the test ride and set aside $450 to get the ECU flashed if you decide to buy it.
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Old 10-17-2013, 06:50 PM   #190
The_Precious_Juice
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Question I'm glad you mintioned the Clutch Jumper Mod

Quote:
Originally Posted by Superstar View Post
Take a fuse with you (Clutch Jumper Mod) for the test ride and set aside $450 to get the ECU flashed if you decide to buy it.
Thanks for the feedback.

I just now started looking over the ECU and CJM stuff in the forums.

I may be one of the rare breed who are at the other end of the spectrum of WOT.
So, do I even need this mode? I'm a low performance kind of rider.
The 2012+ V-Strom damn near beats the S10, but the Yamaha has more flexability (not sure what kind of rider I'll be) and more potintial for adventure than the DL650. Initial Price is not that big of a deal.

I'd only be interesting in any of these mods if it improved fuel economy (more than 5%) and did not hurt the warrenty.
I'd be touring in North America, and have the range of the DL slightly better than the Candy Yams. Also, the unleaded fuel is a + with the V-twin.

It seems like the reflash has mixed results with making the vibes less.
_
Could I just wait and do one of these mods after the warrenty expires? It would be like a second honey moon.

Sorry about the thread high-jack.

__
To make admends, here is a December, 2011 video comparing the R1200GS 2012 with the S10:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yohu0wuRTNE

Looks like the 990 Adventure snuck in... Opps.

The_Precious_Juice screwed with this post 10-17-2013 at 06:58 PM Reason: Trying to make the perfect post.
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Old 10-17-2013, 07:21 PM   #191
techgeek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Precious_Juice View Post
Thanks for the feedback.

I just now started looking over the ECU and CJM stuff in the forums.

I may be one of the rare breed who are at the other end of the spectrum of WOT.
So, do I even need this mode? I'm a low performance kind of rider.
The 2012+ V-Strom damn near beats the S10, but the Yamaha has more flexability (not sure what kind of rider I'll be) and more potintial for adventure than the DL650. Initial Price is not that big of a deal.

I'd only be interesting in any of these mods if it improved fuel economy (more than 5%) and did not hurt the warrenty.
I'd be touring in North America, and have the range of the DL slightly better than the Candy Yams. Also, the unleaded fuel is a + with the V-twin.

It seems like the reflash has mixed results with making the vibes less.
_
Could I just wait and do one of these mods after the warrenty expires? It would be like a second honey moon.

Sorry about the thread high-jack.

__
To make admends, here is a December, 2011 video comparing the R1200GS 2012 with the S10:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yohu0wuRTNE

Looks like the 990 Adventure snuck in... Opps.
Many on the forums will probably disagree with this statement, but my bike runs just fine without the ecu flash. Yeah, it would be nice to have more power. (it's like RAM or money- can you ever really have too much?) It's got ample power for just about everything I ride, even two up. I'm not doing any drag racing, but regularly cruise well over the speed limit two up.

That being said, I did do the clutch mod. If the ECU cost the same ($0) as the clutch mod and was fully reversible, I would probably try it too.

I don't think the DL650 really competes with the super tenere. If the DL650 does what you need, you could save yourself a bunch of money. The DL1000 would be a better direct comparison IMO. Fuel range on the Tenere is a bit of a disappointment, though, @ ~ 200 miles per tank.
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Old 10-17-2013, 10:46 PM   #192
pluric
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techgeek View Post
Many on the forums will probably disagree with this statement, but my bike runs just fine without the ecu flash. Yeah, it would be nice to have more power. (it's like RAM or money- can you ever really have too much?) It's got ample power for just about everything I ride, even two up. I'm not doing any drag racing, but regularly cruise well over the speed limit two up.

That being said, I did do the clutch mod. If the ECU cost the same ($0) as the clutch mod and was fully reversible, I would probably try it too.

I don't think the DL650 really competes with the super tenere. If the DL650 does what you need, you could save yourself a bunch of money. The DL1000 would be a better direct comparison IMO. Fuel range on the Tenere is a bit of a disappointment, though, @ ~ 200 miles per tank.
It is fully reversible, just your money to find out if you like it is not.
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Old 10-18-2013, 08:58 AM   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Precious_Juice View Post
Thanks for the feedback.

I just now started looking over the ECU and CJM stuff in the forums.

I may be one of the rare breed who are at the other end of the spectrum of WOT.
So, do I even need this mode? I'm a low performance kind of rider.
The 2012+ V-Strom damn near beats the S10, but the Yamaha has more flexability (not sure what kind of rider I'll be) and more potintial for adventure than the DL650. Initial Price is not that big of a deal.

I'd only be interesting in any of these mods if it improved fuel economy (more than 5%) and did not hurt the warrenty.
I'd be touring in North America, and have the range of the DL slightly better than the Candy Yams. Also, the unleaded fuel is a + with the V-twin.

It seems like the reflash has mixed results with making the vibes less.
_
Could I just wait and do one of these mods after the warrenty expires? It would be like a second honey moon.

Sorry about the thread high-jack.

__
To make admends, here is a December, 2011 video comparing the R1200GS 2012 with the S10:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yohu0wuRTNE

Looks like the 990 Adventure snuck in... Opps.
Any rider, regardless of performance level, should at least try/use the CJM. It doesn't turn the S10 into some snarling beast waiting to toss you on every corner, it just fixes the bike's sluggish nature in the first 3 gears and prevents you from having to slip the clutch so much trying to leave stoplights without lugging it. I could never go back.

Apparently the CJM is hard on the motor at WOT in the higher gears, but I can honestly say I'm never WOT in those gears anyway.
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Old 10-18-2013, 09:28 AM   #194
avc8130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Superstar View Post
Any rider, regardless of performance level, should at least try/use the CJM. It doesn't turn the S10 into some snarling beast waiting to toss you on every corner, it just fixes the bike's sluggish nature in the first 3 gears and prevents you from having to slip the clutch so much trying to leave stoplights without lugging it. I could never go back.

Apparently the CJM is hard on the motor at WOT in the higher gears, but I can honestly say I'm never WOT in those gears anyway.
It's hard on the motor at WOT in ANY gear.
ac
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Old 10-18-2013, 10:55 AM   #195
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Originally Posted by avc8130 View Post
It's hard on the motor at WOT in ANY gear.
ac
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