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Old 10-29-2013, 07:41 AM   #11056
sbrownn
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They are there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TowPro View Post
I asked my salesmen if it had ride height sensors so the bike is level depending on how much load, and he said no.
here is why I asked:
Manual, page 65.
Dynamic EAS Electronic Suspension Adjustment
- with dynamic ESA

Adjustment Options
Using the electronic suspension adjustment, dynamic ESA you can conveniently adjust your motorcycle to the load.
Using leveling sensors, dynamic ESA detects movements of the running gear and responds to them by adjusting the damper valves.
(this says Damper Valves, not Spring rate)

Now on page 67, under section about Adjusting Chassis (that starts on page 66).
At very low temperatures, unload the motorcycles before increasing the spring preload, and have the passenger dismount if necessary.
This makes me think there is no ride height sensors, and it sounds more like a "pre set" spring load change.
You can see the sensors on the bike. My guess would be is that they provide feedback for the on the go damper adjustment and perhaps they balance the spring pre-load front to back as well.

sbrownn screwed with this post 10-29-2013 at 07:50 AM
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Old 10-29-2013, 09:08 AM   #11057
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbrownn View Post
You can see the sensors on the bike. My guess would be is that they provide feedback for the on the go damper adjustment and perhaps they balance the spring pre-load front to back as well.
Yes, there are sensors, but not for preload just for dynamic damping.
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Old 10-29-2013, 12:58 PM   #11058
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Makes sense.

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Originally Posted by EJ_92606 View Post
Yes, there are sensors, but not for preload just for dynamic damping.
Yes, that is probably true.
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Old 11-13-2013, 05:16 PM   #11059
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EJ_92606 View Post
Preload is set by changing the height of the spring perch and does so by a motor and not the damper. This is the first I've heard that it measures the rider weight as part of the adjustment...I was also told to unweight the bike when adjusting preload so as not to over stress the motors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oalvarez View Post
Preload is a function of the spring height/rate.....i don't know preload to be a by-product of damping/fluids. what your tech is describing sounds more like damping (compression and rebound, fluid being pushed thru valves/orifices), and not preload (the spring actually being manipulated lower/higher by force, and in the case of BMW, by a motor...whether that still controls a collar or pushes something else, i'm not sure).
You’re both right - the preload adjuster is separate from the damper, using a motor/pump to increase/decrease the spring compression hydraulically and steplessly. I should have differentiated this clearly, as my previous description excluded this distinction. You can see the individual chambers and how the components slide against each other in the cutaway below.

Ironically my bike is going in on Monday to have the preload system checked/potentially replaced as it intermittently refuses to change settings. After riding in solo mode, if I stop the bike (to wait for someone, for example), then restart it and change to 2-up mode, the indicator flashes indefinitely with no change to the preload. This happens probably 1 in 3 times... a bit annoyed, but at least my dealership has been helpful/understanding and have involved HQ engineers in Munich.

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Old 11-14-2013, 10:12 AM   #11060
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Iv'e got to admit, the while I find the GSW Dynamic ESA to work very good overall, the limit of only 3 options for preload is frustrating. Unless you weigh the ideal 175lbs, the icon settings are way off. Fully geared up, I'm about 230lbs. Put the preload in solo(one helmet) and it is very soft (no cases on the bike). Too soft. Handles pretty bad. So, I have to set icons to solo with luggage, which is a bit too much preload, but a lot better than the one helmet icon only. Is this BMW's way of telling me to go in a diet, and what if you're a lightweight and only way 140lbs? If we could tailor the icon settings to match rider weight, or the bike could do it itself. It has travel sensors, it could add preload when it realized that sag is too much. Maybe the aftermarket will help us out someday with custom springs.
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Old 11-14-2013, 12:14 PM   #11061
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[QUOTE=ShaftEd;22778116]Is this BMW's way of telling me to go in a diet, and what if you're a lightweight and only way 140lbs?.[/QUOTE
I was sort of thinking the same thing (but never got around to playing with this feature yet). How does the bike know how much the rider weighs? Now if they adapted those sensors on there to be level sensors, that would be great.
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Old 11-14-2013, 08:12 PM   #11062
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaftEd View Post
Is this BMW's way of telling me to go in a diet, and what if you're a lightweight and only way 140lbs?.[/QUOTE
I was sort of thinking the same thing (but never got around to playing with this feature yet). How does the bike know how much the rider weighs? Now if they adapted those sensors on there to be level sensors, that would be great.
That's just it.....it doesn't, but that's where sag measurements come into play. If one truly wants the best performance from their bike's suspension then a "one spring fits all" (variable rate springs help) system won't really allow for such. That's why there are oem and/or aftermarket springs that best suit different rider weights. Of course, some riders may be entirely happy with the oem ride and available preload adjustments, others may not know any better, and some manufacturers may not even allow for different springs, so all of this may be for naught.
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Old 11-14-2013, 08:27 PM   #11063
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[QUOTE=oalvarez;22782426]
Quote:
Originally Posted by TowPro View Post

That's just it.....it doesn't, but that's where sag measurements come into play. If one truly wants the best performance from their bike's suspension then a "one spring fits all" (variable rate springs help) system won't really allow for such. That's why there are oem and/or aftermarket springs that best suit different rider weights. Of course, some riders may be entirely happy with the oem ride and available preload adjustments, others may not know any better, and some manufacturers may not even allow for different springs, so all of this may be for naught.
This is the reason that I installed a set of Wilbers on my GTL and will do the same on the GSW.
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Old 11-14-2013, 08:43 PM   #11064
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iride4u View Post
This is the reason that I installed a set of Wilbers on my GTL and will do the same on the GSW.
I did the same but used Ohlins on an old GS of mine.......the best riding GS, ever.

Wait, you just gave me an idea....
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Old 11-14-2013, 08:56 PM   #11065
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaftEd View Post
Iv'e got to admit, the while I find the GSW Dynamic ESA to work very good overall, the limit of only 3 options for preload is frustrating. Unless you weigh the ideal 175lbs, the icon settings are way off. Fully geared up, I'm about 230lbs. Put the preload in solo(one helmet) and it is very soft (no cases on the bike). Too soft. Handles pretty bad. So, I have to set icons to solo with luggage, which is a bit too much preload, but a lot better than the one helmet icon only. Is this BMW's way of telling me to go in a diet, and what if you're a lightweight and only way 140lbs? If we could tailor the icon settings to match rider weight, or the bike could do it itself. It has travel sensors, it could add preload when it realized that sag is too much. Maybe the aftermarket will help us out someday with custom springs.
It seems like it would not be an impossibility for BMW to allow input of the riders "ready to ride weight" and then utilize the idiot icons ... if not directly by the rider (more convenient) at least by the dealer / computer connection.
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Old 11-15-2013, 09:51 AM   #11066
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oalvarez View Post
If one truly wants the best performance from their bike's suspension then a "one spring fits all" (variable rate springs help) system won't really allow for such. That's why there are oem and/or aftermarket springs that best suit different rider weights.
Wilbers makes replacement springs for the HP4 Dynamic suspension, so maybe they will make springs for the GS. Hell, the front shock on the GSW doesn't even have any preload adjustment at all. Seems pretty weird to me.
I am hearing some rumors of Wilbers making complete Dynamic replacement shocks for the GS(haven't found them on the interweb yet), and Touratech just debuted Dynamic shocks at the ECIMA 2013 show for the GSW. These may be options down the road, as it stands now, I spent way to much $ to also add in $3k-$4k in aftermarket shocks. Besides the stock stuff works very good. I'd just like to be able to ge a proper sag setting for me, and me with luggage. Oh well, my Dr. told me to go on a diet anyway.
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Old 11-15-2013, 09:52 AM   #11067
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mefly2 View Post
It seems like it would not be an impossibility for BMW to allow input of the riders "ready to ride weight" and then utilize the idiot icons ... if not directly by the rider (more convenient) at least by the dealer / computer connection.
Not a bad idea, dealer sets rider weight on computer at time of purchase. Then preload icons work correctly.
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Old 11-15-2013, 10:15 AM   #11068
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Punching in your rider weight would be cool. But, alas, it still requires the correct spring to get proper static preload.
No way around that.

I suspect the buyers that weigh between 165-190lbs geared up will find themselves right in the bullseye for the OEM springs. Thus. The ESA settings will work well for them across the solo-luggage-2-up scenario.

Anybody lighter or heavier will not match up well with the pre-programmed settings of the ESA system. Just physics.

I'm betting that if not now, sooner or later somebody is going to make aftermarket springs for the ESA shocks?
And is it really true there is no preload adjustment on the front? That seems implausible.
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Old 11-15-2013, 11:02 AM   #11069
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snakebitten View Post
And is it really true there is no preload adjustment on the front? That seems implausible.

Yep, the standard GSW(without ESA), or the Dynamic ESA optioned GSW, front shocks have no preload adjustment.
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Old 11-15-2013, 11:22 AM   #11070
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaftEd View Post
Yep, the standard GSW(without ESA), or the Dynamic ESA optioned GSW, front shocks have no preload adjustment.
That's hard to get my head around.
It would seem you could get the front and rear out of "balance". Where they would\could work against each other.

Do the after market shocks up front supply pre-load?
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