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Old 10-30-2013, 05:34 AM   #1
sidecarxer OP
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some questions from left field.

Hey guys, been on sidecars for twenty some years but as the tag suggests I have been a sidecarcross racer and specifically a passenger.
I am looking to build a rig/hack/boat/outfit, whatever you want to call it and have an XTZ750 Super Tenere' to tow it along.
But 1st some questions I have been pondering.
I have a set of up-side-down forks from a YZ that I was to use on my XTZ as an upgrade for adventure riding. Now looking at them I see the triples are massive, so do I use them with a trail reducer system, just use the triples and build some massive alloy LLinks or scrap the idea and just copy some Wasp/EML LLs.
Next, why don't I see too many alloy outfits?? Its light, strong and can be made to be stressed unit rather than bolting a box or tub on top. Weight is important to me.
Lastly, why no front drive on any I have seen. everyone wants to drive the chair wheel but with fluid drive front you can pull the chair around turns and share the tyre wear. So what up??
I have plenty of other questions but hopefully will stay in touch during the build.

sidecarxer screwed with this post 10-30-2013 at 05:35 AM Reason: spelling
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Old 10-30-2013, 06:53 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sidecarxer View Post
Next, why don't I see too many alloy outfits??

Who is going to weld it in the middle of Bumphucnowhere and with what ?



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I have a set of up-side-down forks from a YZ that I was to use on my XTZ as an upgrade for adventure riding. Now looking at them I see the triples are massive, so do I use them with a trail reducer system, just use the triples and build some massive alloy LLinks or scrap the idea and just copy some Wasp/EML LLs.



Courtesy of Ray.

http://advrider.com/forums/showpost....postcount=5515



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Old 10-30-2013, 04:42 PM   #3
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Hey Heckler (WTF is a FR700?) I guess that was my 1st thought too, however, 2 things....1 is that these days alloy welding is far more common place and 2 is that back some years ago...in the 80's, we raced a DR500 with alloy chair attached and I can say that the chair lasted a lot longer than the bike frame. In fact we hit a tree at an "off road spectacular" race meet -kinda cross between enduro cross and motocross- and stretched alot of bits, but nothing broke but while racing the nationals at ACUSA park we broke the whole front end off the DR!!
As I 1st mentioned, the chair was stressed...the whole thing was welded together and each part was made to support the others.
Who made your forks there mate.....and are they alloy or just painted that way?
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Old 10-30-2013, 04:46 PM   #4
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Old 10-30-2013, 06:49 PM   #5
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Hey Heckler (WTF is a FR700?)

Truck.


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Who made your forks there mate.....and are they alloy or just painted that way?

As it said above the link ... courtesy of Ray.


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we raced a DR500 with alloy chair attached and I can say that the chair lasted a lot longer than the bike frame.

If you are happy going with an alloy frame for the chair then run with it.

Post pic's when you get around to it.


I have yet to find a cattle station that has the ability to weld alloy out in the scrub.

Here in Brisbane , yes.


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Old 10-30-2013, 07:36 PM   #6
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So MR FR700...of course it is. I was trying to think bikes, not Macks.
Splitter g/box might be a good idea for sidecar tho.
Now, don't be too hard on me. As I said I have had a fair bit to do with sidecars but I am new to road travel with one.
It looks like you have done a bit tho.
I'm not too good at adding pics but will work on that.
I don't want to try to re-write the sidecar history in a minute but have seen and learnt some stuff in my 50+ years. Mostly when I shoulda shut up.
I'm guessing that when you guys make one of these, after a settling in period, they stay pretty much how they are. No long term adjustments...which is how it should be. So, building adjustability into the set-up is a good idea but not essential. Right?
As a passenger I can see that most outfits are either sit-in, sit-on or no seat at all-just luggage space. I don't mine the sit-in though it keeps the passenger from moving too much-to aid stability when going around twisty bits. The sit-on style just scares me as I have seen too many face plant on the motocross track and the carry-all is no good as I have a missus whom I am to convince that this will be great. Wish me luck.
Some thoughts please.
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Old 10-30-2013, 10:49 PM   #7
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So MR FR700...of course it is. I was trying to think bikes, not Macks.
Splitter g/box might be a good idea for sidecar tho.
Now, don't be too hard on me.
I'm not too good at adding pics but will work on that.
Nothing so formal as Mr.

Luke , FR' or heckler ... even Shithead will suffice.

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I don't want to try to re-write the sidecar history in a minute but have seen and learnt some stuff in my 50+ years. Mostly when I shoulda shut up.
I'm guessing that when you guys make one of these, after a settling in period, they stay pretty much how they are. No long term adjustments...which is how it should be. So, building adjustability into the set-up is a good idea but not essential. Right?

If you ask fifty sidecar builders , you'll get fifty different answers. Once you have built a few to mount on the same bike/model you can build in less adjustability because you know what you are aiming for as an end product.

Considering the circle that you move in , have a yarn with Bruce at Coorparoo , he's still just over the rail line.


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As a passenger I can see that most outfits are either sit-in, sit-on or no seat at all-just luggage space. I don't mine the sit-in though it keeps the passenger from moving too much-to aid stability when going around twisty bits. The sit-on style just scares me as I have seen too many face plant on the motocross track and the carry-all is no good as I have a missus whom I am to convince that this will be great. Wish me luck.
Some thoughts please.

Once again it comes back to what you feel comfortable with and how trustworthy the passenger is.


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Old 10-31-2013, 02:40 AM   #8
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One word (4 actually) K.I.S.S. As the others said repairs to ali, 2wd, front wheel drive, anti gravity conductors, rocket engines and thingame bobs out bush are near impossible.

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Old 10-31-2013, 04:04 PM   #9
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Hi 3legs. I agree with the KISS principal too. I don't want to fix shit that shouldn't let me down. Hence I stay away from BMWs
The alloy thing is for lightweight and I understand that it wont be repaired just anywhere, so that's why I asked the question.
I see from Rays link that he has a "road trials" outfit most likely rced in SA maybe even on the 24hr....so it's gotta be tough, but 24hrs is not 3 weeks... in the desert....it's not the Dakar.
I would love to take a look at the sidecar that just finished the Safari in WA. Check it for cracks and ask what they had to fix.
Anyway...I am talking to an alloy boat builder to get his angle on it.
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Old 11-03-2013, 01:24 AM   #10
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Firstly, the baldish head next to the NX is LeighSA. I could be very mistaken, but he did the links on the NX. Chromoly tube would be my guess.

The NX was built for the SA Road Trials competition. It only made the first stage of the 24, because the passenger hurt himself and couldn't continue. The bike was then used for a couple of other road trials before Leigh borrowed it for our 1/2 lap of NSW.

I'd reckon if I bike can survive the 24, then it's probably sufficiently strong enough, in basic design anyway, to survive an extended tour, Simpson Desert or not. Whether it would be able to cross sand dunes etc is another matter.

I've got no idea of the strength, or otherwise, of aluminium for a sidecar. But if you're suggesting an aluminium monocoque (spelling, please), one question that springs to mind is how many major manufacturers do it in series production? (If I had my time over again...)

Whilst 'light' is an objective. How light is too light? I mean actual weight. One does need some weight in a touring sidecar. Then again, if it'sjsut for touring, the load may provide sufficient weight. I know the NX was too short, narrow & light, even loaded, to be a relaxing ride on even straight twin track. It was a lot more capable of going further than the Tiger (who'da thunk that?) but the Tiger was so much more relaxing and enjoyable to ride, as you just didn't need to concentrate on every little surface irregularity. Having said that, it steered beautifully.

I wonder if my Tiger would be able to do sand dunes. Or would it be too heavy - especially in the front tyre? Maybe I would be the weak link? I'll probably have to find some sand to test it out. One day.
There is a 350LC screaming out for a thrashing in the mean time.
And some repairs to bits I broke on the Tiger during the recent ride.

The sidecar in the Safari was from SA. The chassis, I expect, would have been imported from Europe. $$$$$$$$ It wouldn't have been a KTM chassis with a sidecar attached. It would've been an MX chassis, modified if required, for endurance racing. It was parked at Main Control at the 24 but, I didn't get a photo of it.

Must have a squiz at the Safari thread.
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Old 11-03-2013, 03:01 AM   #11
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Yes Tripodtiger, the front forks were made by me and made of chromoly

The sidecar raced in this years Safari was built here in SA, was purpose built for the Safari, heavy tubes in the correct places and other dimensions changed to suit!
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Old 11-03-2013, 03:09 AM   #12
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Yes Tripodtiger, the front forks were made by me and made of chromoly


You may have heard this before , but , you do some seriously nice work Leigh.


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Old 11-03-2013, 04:23 AM   #13
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Thanks FR700, but now I want to do some serious adv riding, when I finish my Tiger/Trek sidecar, been really slow progress lately, sidecar nearly finished, then get the Tiger solo in the work shed and complete the rear swingarm/linkage, sidecar subframe and Leading link

Sounds easy
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Old 11-03-2013, 03:14 PM   #14
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Thanks guys. Most of what you've said is already in my memory banks.
As you see from my tag I'am a sidecar crosser.
The sidecar the Hutchenson twins rode in the Safari was built by a well known sidecar racer, both road racing and off road, who's name is on the tip of my tongue.......Gavin Porteus. Great builder BTW. Also built John Dobies KTM Adventure based 'crosser that proved to be too heavy to match the lightweights from Europe, though it had enough go juice.
Alot of what goes into the sidecar needs to be put in the corrct spot. If you ask 9-10 where would you put a long range tank...they all point to the front floor. As a passenger, that's the last spot you need it. If you want traction you need to have it by the back wheel...if it's forward and to the left, it will drag you that way when the front gets heavy i.e in sand or mud.
I need to work out how to get pics and drawings on here.
Later.
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