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Old 11-09-2013, 04:39 PM   #4216
WayneC1
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Dready Bear, Measure the lower fork tube diameter to determine the type, the next step is to measure the length from axle centre to the top of the forks and compare that to the lengths in the WP Notes pdf I have online, that will tell you how much they need to be shortened to suit the GS and that will tell you the length of spring you will need. It looks like the for on the forks is for a 20mm axle, check it.

Since the forks are set up for the CCM 644 you will not know what rate the springs fitted are, it is likely they are around 0.46, the spring rate can be determined from a spring rate calculator like the one I have online. The valving will also be unknown and that will need to be checked and possibly adjusted, again that is all in the WP Notes pdf

If they are 4357 then you will need to buy a set of KTM yokes from an MX 250 or 450 with at least 20mm offset
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Old 11-13-2013, 04:53 AM   #4217
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Fyi...

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=934073
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Old 11-15-2013, 12:37 AM   #4218
Linusp3
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I intend to do the YFZ front end switch and keep the stock wheel and brakes.

How did you guys solve the ABS-mounting bracket?
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Old 11-15-2013, 01:00 PM   #4219
hasenwerk
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270 vs 320mm brakes

I currently have some YZ250F Forks and triple for my non-ABS 2006 650 GS. I have found locally, but have not bought an Excel 21" wheel, axle and caliper from a YZ250F for about $150, but there is no disc or spacers included.

On fleaBay, a 270mm YZ kit, delivered is about $150, 320mm is $225 delivered.

So... bang for the buck here... is it worth it to spend $300 / $375 on the Yamaha parts or should I just get the parts for using my BMW wheel and caliper instead? What is the current costing and source on the parts that allow you to use the BMW wheel and brakes?

One thing I may consider is installing the YZ suspension on my 2013 Sertao and transferring those parts over to my GS seeing how I have a Dakar rear shock on it... then it might be worth the specialty machined parts...

I would like some "real world" comparisons on the difference between BMW braking and the 270 and 320mm Yamaha brakes. I find this all funny as my 900kg Volkswagen Jetta has two 239mm discs and it stops fine!

Decisions decisions...
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Old 11-15-2013, 02:19 PM   #4220
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My bike is with a suspension guy who is going to revalve the forks and possibly sort out the rear shock. I'm currently running 1" raising links in the rear which will get changed back to the standard links when I get an 18" rear laced. Do I need to get the forks shortened as well (possibly the 25mm as per what HOH do) to match an 18" rear? Does that 25mm reduction in height of the forks take into account different height of the spacers (I think mines 12mm) under the top clamp?
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Old 11-16-2013, 01:16 PM   #4221
Lupin 3rd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hasenwerk View Post
I currently have some YZ250F Forks and triple for my non-ABS 2006 650 GS. I have found locally, but have not bought an Excel 21" wheel, axle and caliper from a YZ250F for about $150, but there is no disc or spacers included.

On fleaBay, a 270mm YZ kit, delivered is about $150, 320mm is $225 delivered.

So... bang for the buck here... is it worth it to spend $300 / $375 on the Yamaha parts or should I just get the parts for using my BMW wheel and caliper instead? What is the current costing and source on the parts that allow you to use the BMW wheel and brakes?

One thing I may consider is installing the YZ suspension on my 2013 Sertao and transferring those parts over to my GS seeing how I have a Dakar rear shock on it... then it might be worth the specialty machined parts...

I would like some "real world" comparisons on the difference between BMW braking and the 270 and 320mm Yamaha brakes. I find this all funny as my 900kg Volkswagen Jetta has two 239mm discs and it stops fine!

Decisions decisions...
I completely removed the ABS and my entire front end (wheel, forks, caliper, master) is YZ only with the exception of the rotor where I chose a 270mm unit. I find there is a noticeable difference in breaking between the stock BMW rotor and the one I got, and I am happy with it.

I did the YZ conversion with the plan of using the bike with a knobby tire (T63 currently) on the front, I also plan to ride year round. A knobby will have less grip than an 80/10 tire, especially when it's wet and cold. I am far more concerned with locking the front wheel (especially in an emergency) than not having enough brake. If I had to nitpick I would have gotten different pads for more grip, the current ones (I forgot which) are a bit hard, but other than that I'm good.

As far as comparing bike rotors to the ones on cars, it's apples to oranges. Even my old '94 VW Golf the rear rotors were much thicker (2x) than on any bike and the front ones were vented. It's not just the diameter of a rotor that determines how much it will brake but also the thickness. For comparison the stock BMW rotor is about 5mm thick with a minimum thickness of 4.5 mm. The 270mm & 320mm rotors in the eBay kits are less than that (I think 4 - 3.5 mm). And this is without even taking brake pad area and pressure applied into consideration.

Most people who get the kit to keep the BMW wheel & brakes do it for the ABS. Given that you don't have ABS on your bike, you could go the cheaper route with the YZ parts and step up to the 320mm rotor.

Before you make any choice, you should decide what is the purpose of this bike for you? Single track with enough street riding to get to the fun parts or lots of highway with the occasional gravel road?

Hope this helps and I haven't just wasted your time.
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Old 11-16-2013, 01:51 PM   #4222
hasenwerk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lupin 3rd View Post
I completely removed the ABS and my entire front end (wheel, forks, caliper, master) is YZ only with the exception of the rotor where I chose a 270mm unit. I find there is a noticeable difference in breaking between the stock BMW rotor and the one I got, and I am happy with it.

I did the YZ conversion with the plan of using the bike with a knobby tire (T63 currently) on the front, I also plan to ride year round. A knobby will have less grip than an 80/10 tire, especially when it's wet and cold. I am far more concerned with locking the front wheel (especially in an emergency) than not having enough brake. If I had to nitpick I would have gotten different pads for more grip, the current ones (I forgot which) are a bit hard, but other than that I'm good.

As far as comparing bike rotors to the ones on cars, it's apples to oranges. Even my old '94 VW Golf the rear rotors were much thicker (2x) than on any bike and the front ones were vented. It's not just the diameter of a rotor that determines how much it will brake but also the thickness. For comparison the stock BMW rotor is about 5mm thick with a minimum thickness of 4.5 mm. The 270mm & 320mm rotors in the eBay kits are less than that (I think 4 - 3.5 mm). And this is without even taking brake pad area and pressure applied into consideration.

Most people who get the kit to keep the BMW wheel & brakes do it for the ABS. Given that you don't have ABS on your bike, you could go the cheaper route with the YZ parts and step up to the 320mm rotor.

Before you make any choice, you should decide what is the purpose of this bike for you? Single track with enough street riding to get to the fun parts or lots of highway with the occasional gravel road?

Hope this helps and I haven't just wasted your time.
This bike will be my wife's cross-Canada bike that we will take a many gravel roads is possible - Northern Quebec Hydro roads, trans-Labrador and when we are in BC we do a lot of back roads and in between mult-day 120km/h highway runs - so really I the bike is a true "GS" where the English translation would be "gravel" and "street". We don't do a lot of single track and technical off-road but the gravel roads we do ride are filled with potholes and are rough.

I intend on running the BMW master cylinder, so what I am looking for is the same braking power as the OE BMW setup, which I think is more than adequate! Is the 270mm adequate for our application or do we need the 320mm ?
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Old 11-16-2013, 08:05 PM   #4223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hasenwerk View Post
This bike will be my wife's cross-Canada bike that we will take a many gravel roads is possible - Northern Quebec Hydro roads, trans-Labrador and when we are in BC we do a lot of back roads and in between mult-day 120km/h highway runs - so really I the bike is a true "GS" where the English translation would be "gravel" and "street". We don't do a lot of single track and technical off-road but the gravel roads we do ride are filled with potholes and are rough.

I intend on running the BMW master cylinder, so what I am looking for is the same braking power as the OE BMW setup, which I think is more than adequate! Is the 270mm adequate for our application or do we need the 320mm ?
I have the 320 kit and it works well once you bed in the pads. That said, the 270 kit with the right pads should work fine for most riders. I am running soem EBC pads right now but will probably go to Galfer greens pads next season. With the 270 and galfer greens it should work just fine. If you want more braking the 320 will work too.
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Old 11-17-2013, 01:30 AM   #4224
WayneC1
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To compare the YZ and GS braking systems is comparing apples to oranges, the YZ system is used across the board on the YZ 125 to 450 models and many other Japanese makes and models but note the WR250X moves to a 300 mm disc. The basics are :-

GS - Brembo 32/30 mm two piston caliper - Pads 108.9 x 41.3 x 7 mm - EBC 209/2 - Disc 300 x 5 mm

YZ - Nissin 27/27 mm two piston caliper - Pads 94 x 34.2 x 7.5 mm - FA185X - 250 x 3 mm

Oversize Discs - 280x3 mm or 320x3.5 mm or 4.0 mm - EBC STD Disc MD6017DX Oversize OS6028C 280 x ? mm (floating) or SM6028C 320x4 mm.
The YZ may be OK for a light desert flyer like NotMyModelName's beast but is underrated for a dirt road tourer loaded with gear for longer trips and higher speed

The 320 mm oversize disc starts to address the issues but is still hampered by the smaller piston size of the YZ caliper
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Old 11-17-2013, 09:24 AM   #4225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WayneC1 View Post
.....a light desert flyer like NotMyModelName's beast.....
Alleged.

Been a while since there's been any documented progress with that project
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Old 11-17-2013, 07:07 PM   #4226
Lupin 3rd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gravel Seeker View Post
Alleged.

Been a while since there's been any documented progress with that project
His build thread was promising until a KTM 450 threw an wrench in the works ...

There's also Tacos F650GSDakar Strip and Rebuild thread that was killed by a WR250R.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hasenwerk View Post
I intend on running the BMW master cylinder, so what I am looking for is the same braking power as the OE BMW setup, which I think is more than adequate! Is the 270mm adequate for our application or do we need the 320mm ?
I think the 270 would be adequate for your needs. But the truth is that there's only one way to find out: try both and see what works...
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Old 11-17-2013, 09:45 PM   #4227
hasenwerk
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Originally Posted by Lupin 3rd View Post
I think the 270 would be adequate for your needs. But the truth is that there's only one way to find out: try both and see what works...
Right - so what we're saying here is BMWs brakes are pretty decent. So wheel @ $100 plus $250 for the 320mm brake for a total of $350 or adapt the BMW wheel and brake for maybe slightly more.... that is the question - and to complete that question now, who is selling the brake adapter and axle and how much is it going for?
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ADVRIDER Discount: BMW F650 GS & Dakar / G650 GS & Sertao "Adventure Extender" 6L / 1.6gal Auxiliary Fuel Tanks
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Old 11-17-2013, 10:18 PM   #4228
Linusp3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hasenwerk View Post
Who is selling the brake adapter and axle and how much is it going for?
The price I got from Richard Wilson at House of Horsepower are: axle, spacer(s) and brake adapter kit (no ABS-bracket) for 575USD and progressive fork springs with lowering spacer and shims for 275USD.

//Linus
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Old 11-17-2013, 11:53 PM   #4229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hasenwerk View Post
Right - so what we're saying here is BMWs brakes are pretty decent. So wheel @ $100 plus $250 for the 320mm brake for a total of $350 or adapt the BMW wheel and brake for maybe slightly more.... that is the question - and to complete that question now, who is selling the brake adapter and axle and how much is it going for?
What is your timeframe to get the bike done?
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Old 11-18-2013, 12:21 AM   #4230
Linusp3
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What is your timeframe to get the bike done?
Have you got a better deal? I'm just about ordering a kit from HOH...
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