ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Thumpers
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 11-12-2013, 11:04 PM   #1
cbsean OP
Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Oddometer: 13
02 honda xr650r kickstart binding not spinning with video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mU3mJMvdi9g
Video

parts fiche


02 honda xr650r

wide view


i try to kick start the engine an am experiencing binding that stops the kick starter from turning the engine over. after some research I found that the binding is occurring between the 36/24 tooth gear connected to the kick starter and the 35-tooth idler gear that connects the kick starter's momentum across to the clutch basket.
close up

the problem is that the teeth of the 24/36-tooth gear don't marry with the 35-tooth idler pinion. the result of this miscarriage is binding.
bad engagement

all of the pieces are present and installed properly and all of the bearings work as they should.
all of the parts have been ordered from Honda and everything fits flush and as it should. i am at a total loss for what can be causing this mismatch
any ideas, suggestions or theories..?
__________________
i live at http://freelancethink.blogspot.com/
cbsean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2013, 04:57 AM   #2
mcma111
Beastly Adventurer
 
mcma111's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: San Francisco,Ca.
Oddometer: 11,209
I don't know XRR's but I do know XR600's. It looks like your inner idler gear may be missing it's bushing thus letting it get out of alignment. Time to pull it apart and check.
__________________
Steve in SF

BMW's
58 R26
79 R100s
91 R100gs

87 Harley FXRS-SP ~ 06 KTM 625 SMC ~ 72 Honda CB750/915cc ~ 92 XR600/654cc ~ 95 XR650l/675cc ~ 03 CRF450r ~ 05 CRF450x ~ 02 XR650l/675cc ~ 86 YZ490 ~ 93 YZ80 ~ 93 XR650l Project
mcma111 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2013, 03:47 PM   #3
cbsean OP
Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Oddometer: 13
thanks mcma111, there is no play in any of the bearings connecting the kick start shaft, the following idler or the clutch basket. the only thing i could think of is that one of the gears has enough teeth but its diameter is too small to engage the idler gear. the only way i could test this theory is to compare the gears measurements against the same parts off a working bike.

arg.
__________________
i live at http://freelancethink.blogspot.com/
cbsean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2013, 04:56 PM   #4
mcma111
Beastly Adventurer
 
mcma111's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: San Francisco,Ca.
Oddometer: 11,209
You need to pull the clutch basket and check the double gear behind it and it's bushing. Make sure the shaft doesn't have any side play. Ya gotta dig deeper.
__________________
Steve in SF

BMW's
58 R26
79 R100s
91 R100gs

87 Harley FXRS-SP ~ 06 KTM 625 SMC ~ 72 Honda CB750/915cc ~ 92 XR600/654cc ~ 95 XR650l/675cc ~ 03 CRF450r ~ 05 CRF450x ~ 02 XR650l/675cc ~ 86 YZ490 ~ 93 YZ80 ~ 93 XR650l Project
mcma111 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2013, 05:37 PM   #5
cbsean OP
Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Oddometer: 13
ok you're saying to check for wear, damage or play in parts #4 and 5.

i am not afraid to do anything on this machine but i don't believe there us anything suspicious about those parts and am pretty sure they were both new parts recently order.

i will double check this and reply with my findings.
__________________
i live at http://freelancethink.blogspot.com/
cbsean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2013, 05:42 PM   #6
kenny61
Crazy Idiot
 
kenny61's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2010
Location: Romaniacs 2019
Oddometer: 24,098
I believe he is saying check part # 6, which I agree with. (liek that matters)
__________________
On the plains of hesitation lie the blackened bones of countless millions who at the dawn of victory lay down to rest, and in resting died. The only thing that comes to those who wait is old age. Too many dreams.... Not enough time. Not Scared of dying. Not scared of living. Just scared of the pain that separates the two...
kenny61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2013, 06:06 PM   #7
cbsean OP
Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Oddometer: 13
yes, i made a mistake. i plan to check part #6, the bushing.
__________________
i live at http://freelancethink.blogspot.com/
cbsean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2013, 04:47 PM   #8
mcma111
Beastly Adventurer
 
mcma111's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: San Francisco,Ca.
Oddometer: 11,209
Well ???
__________________
Steve in SF

BMW's
58 R26
79 R100s
91 R100gs

87 Harley FXRS-SP ~ 06 KTM 625 SMC ~ 72 Honda CB750/915cc ~ 92 XR600/654cc ~ 95 XR650l/675cc ~ 03 CRF450r ~ 05 CRF450x ~ 02 XR650l/675cc ~ 86 YZ490 ~ 93 YZ80 ~ 93 XR650l Project
mcma111 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2013, 07:12 PM   #9
RideFreak
Green Chile Eater
 
RideFreak's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: County Lockup, NM
Oddometer: 5,592
I just watched that vid. The reason you have that gap between the pair of gears is the cover isn't installed and the kickstart shaft has tilted downward creating more of a gap. The cover is the centering device for the shaft without it that shaft just wallows around. The gap between the gears isn't going to cause binding.
__________________
Chris

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but to rather skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ... Holy Shit, what a ride!"
Canyonlands Adventure Ride 2013 / 700 Miles of Scenic Utah Backcountry / VIDEOS
RideFreak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2013, 02:00 AM   #10
cbsean OP
Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Oddometer: 13
RideFreak: The binding was originally discovered when the engine was together and intact. i made two short video to help problem solve further.


Binding
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSQADQuVysM

Engine rotation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkqFemUCMes
__________________
i live at http://freelancethink.blogspot.com/
cbsean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2013, 02:26 AM   #11
Homerb
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: Toukley NSW Australia
Oddometer: 437
I had the same problem on my XL600. Turned out the idler gear was in backwards, and was binding on the back of the clutch basket. I dont know if you can fit the XR650R idler gear backwards, but its worth a look. Was the kickstarter gear dismantled? Maybe that gear is on backwards.
Homerb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2013, 02:42 AM   #12
cbsean OP
Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Oddometer: 13
interesting suggestion Homerb. i will look at that tomorrow. i didn't understand something about the kickstarter.

it looks as though the finger (tap, tang or whatever the raised piece of metal in part #2) faces forward (clockwise) but the kicking of the kickstarter causes the tinger to be spun backwards (counter-clockwise).

kicking the starter spins the gear counterclockwise but the finger wants to engage the gear clockwise. everything is either key or for some other reasons only fits in one way. i couldn't see how anything could go together backwards.
__________________
i live at http://freelancethink.blogspot.com/
cbsean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2013, 06:04 AM   #13
RideFreak
Green Chile Eater
 
RideFreak's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: County Lockup, NM
Oddometer: 5,592
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbsean View Post
RideFreak: The binding was originally discovered when the engine was together and intact. i made two short video to help problem solve further.


Binding
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSQADQuVysM

Engine rotation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkqFemUCMes
It's not the gear spacing, are you ready for this......


your clutch bushining is galled, it's supposed to turn freely (independently) inside the clutch hub and on the main shaft but up through 2002 honda didn't design the bushing with enough oil film clearance. When idling the bike in gear with the clutch pulled in it'd boil off the oil and gall between the bushing and the clutch basket. Honda had a recall about it back on '02~'03, apparently your XRR never had it done.


You'll probably have to drive the bushing out of the basket with a drift. Some folks get lucky and polish up the inside area of the basket and replace the bushing with a new one. Often it requires replacement of the basket.
__________________
Chris

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but to rather skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ... Holy Shit, what a ride!"
Canyonlands Adventure Ride 2013 / 700 Miles of Scenic Utah Backcountry / VIDEOS
RideFreak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2013, 06:11 AM   #14
DocAxeYarYar
RideDualSport.com
 
DocAxeYarYar's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Oddometer: 772
Kick binding...

Sorry to hear of the kick start troubles....

If it turns out to be galled clutch bushing, hopefully your clutch basket is usable. Its very easy to break the clutch basket without the proper tool hold it (I know because I broke mine.....).

Turns out finding a good clutch basket was really hard. After a lot of poking around on the Internet, and numerous emails to folks parting out XRRs I found one. The Internet OEM bike parts dealers like BikeBandit had them on BO for unspecified amount of time....


Good luck let us know how it turns out!
__________________
My XR650R Build:
http://ridedualsport.com/forum/index.php?topic=2748.0
DocAxeYarYar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2013, 11:45 PM   #15
cbsean OP
Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Oddometer: 13
Thanks for the response Poppy.

RideFreak, here is the clutch assembly. Are you referring to part #3 when you say "clutch bushing"? I should drive out part #3 and replace it with a new part? How will I be able to tell if the clutch hub is usable or needs replacement?

Docaxeyaryar, if the clutch basket needs replacement, can i buy an aftermarket clutch basket?
__________________
i live at http://freelancethink.blogspot.com/
cbsean is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 11:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014