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Old 11-13-2013, 06:00 AM   #83686
Carbster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motolab View Post
There are actually many significant benefits to ethanol, but those are being (perhaps purposely) overshadowed by poor implementation.

Regards,

Derek
I see none to benefit the consumer!!!!! It holds water in gas, then seperates in carbs, it's a solvent and eats plastic and rubber O rings. The excessive water in the fuel corrodes fuel tanks and fuel pumps.
That solvent action wipes valve stems and cylinder walls clean and prevents the fuel lubricity within the valve train and creates premature wear of upper cylinder and valve train.
The there are thermodynamic ramifications, it doesn't produce as much power... Period! Thus is becomes less efficient. Maybe your thinking of menthanol injection for more power lol.

Ethanol is an extremely destructive fuel for most engines. It has created millions if not billions in damage in the marine industry and automotive and power sports.

The EPA is using it to try and replace MTBE a major groundwater contaminate. New tank technology has been in place for 30 years and improved 400% in the past 10. We don't need ethanol in all of our gas!

The huge conglomerate farms (not the little guy) ethanol plant owners & builders, also the fuel plants blending designer gas for several parts if the country are all laughing the whole way to the bank!!! As is the oil industry!

Write your representative and tell them no more ethanol, it's costing Americans billions and contrayary to belief it is NOT environmentally friendly, just the opposite in production!!
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Old 11-13-2013, 06:13 AM   #83687
Rusty Rocket
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron from BC View Post
Looking for some feedback on this model of bike.





Any candid comments about this model...things to look for, red flags would be appreciated.

http://image.usedcampbellriver.com/p...217816_934.jpg

Thanks..
I had a Suzuki SP600 1985. Same bike, basically. It was my very first 4 stroke bike after 15 years on 2 strokes. (I wanted to try dualsporting)
Kick start only. Hard starting, especially hot. It was prone to "cough and die" when you whacked the throttle off idle. Now that I know more about jetting I think that could be overcome. Decent suspension. Mine lost almost all it's oil on a ride and I never figured out why. It had a knock after that, so I figured it was a bearing issue. I just sold it and stayed with 2 strokes for another 10 years before I tried another 4 stroke.
There was zero aftermarket items for it. It had a 5 gallon tank. If you ever get it. try the tank on a modern (if 1996 is considered modern) DR650. I think I could track down a tank from one of those but don't want to waste my time if it doesn't fit. Good luck.
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Old 11-13-2013, 06:34 AM   #83688
Carl Childers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carbster View Post
i see none to benefit the consumer!!!!! It holds water in gas, then seperates in carbs, it's a solvent and eats plastic and rubber o rings. The excessive water in the fuel corrodes fuel tanks and fuel pumps.
That solvent action wipes valve stems and cylinder walls clean and prevents the fuel lubricity within the valve train and creates premature wear of upper cylinder and valve train.
The there are thermodynamic ramifications, it doesn't produce as much power... Period! Thus is becomes less efficient. Maybe your thinking of menthanol injection for more power lol.

Ethanol is an extremely destructive fuel for most engines. It has created millions if not billions in damage in the marine industry and automotive and power sports.

The epa is using it to try and replace mtbe a major groundwater contaminate. New tank technology has been in place for 30 years and improved 400% in the past 10. We don't need ethanol in all of our gas!

The huge conglomerate farms (not the little guy) ethanol plant owners & builders, also the fuel plants blending designer gas for several parts if the country are all laughing the whole way to the bank!!! As is the oil industry!

Write your representative and tell them no more ethanol, it's costing americans billions and contrayary to belief it is not environmentally friendly, just the opposite in production!!

big plus one!
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Old 11-13-2013, 07:44 AM   #83689
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Originally Posted by Carl Childers View Post
big plus one!
It's a giant piece of pork!!! A pig in a hokie greenie blanket

All a scam at our expense! Demand that your legislators kill this BS!!!
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Old 11-13-2013, 08:27 AM   #83690
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbster View Post
It's a giant piece of pork!!! A pig in a hokie greenie blanket

All a scam at our expense! Demand that your legislators kill this BS!!!
belong to the AMA, they are fighting E-15 now. (right after contacting you reps)
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..1972 Penton Six-Days ..1971 Suzuki TS185.. 2005 KTM 400exc
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Old 11-13-2013, 09:35 AM   #83691
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Originally Posted by motolab View Post
There are actually many significant benefits to ethanol,Derek
Like What.?
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Old 11-13-2013, 09:47 AM   #83692
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ct-ktm View Post
Like What.?
automatically reminds you to replace rubber parts in the carb
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..1972 Penton Six-Days ..1971 Suzuki TS185.. 2005 KTM 400exc
Member of: AMA, NETRA, Blue Ribbon Coalition, CCCofVT, Berkshire TR, CT Ramblers
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Old 11-13-2013, 10:24 AM   #83693
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ct-ktm View Post
Like What.?
Generates additional sales for folks who sell replacement carb parts.
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Old 11-13-2013, 11:03 AM   #83694
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ct-ktm View Post
Like What.?
Corn prices took a crap in the past six months, approaching 4 year lows. The local TSC is selling corn stoves again so people can burn it to heat their homes. Yes, you buy feed corn by the pallet and burn it to heat. It's that cheap.

Some of my neighbors were quick to harvest their soybeans, but the corn is still sitting in the field gathering snow. Combine that with the pork belly shortage due to all the piglets dying from the PED virus and the demand for corn / soy drops even more.

A couple of them are talking about going back to wheat or buckwheat next year to feed the yuppies ...
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Old 11-13-2013, 11:19 AM   #83695
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbster View Post
I see none to benefit the consumer!!!!! It holds water in gas, then seperates in carbs, it's a solvent and eats plastic and rubber O rings. The excessive water in the fuel corrodes fuel tanks and fuel pumps.
That solvent action wipes valve stems and cylinder walls clean and prevents the fuel lubricity within the valve train and creates premature wear of upper cylinder and valve train.
The there are thermodynamic ramifications, it doesn't produce as much power... Period! Thus is becomes less efficient. Maybe your thinking of menthanol injection for more power lol.

Ethanol is an extremely destructive fuel for most engines. It has created millions if not billions in damage in the marine industry and automotive and power sports.

The EPA is using it to try and replace MTBE a major groundwater contaminate. New tank technology has been in place for 30 years and improved 400% in the past 10. We don't need ethanol in all of our gas!

The huge conglomerate farms (not the little guy) ethanol plant owners & builders, also the fuel plants blending designer gas for several parts if the country are all laughing the whole way to the bank!!! As is the oil industry!

Write your representative and tell them no more ethanol, it's costing Americans billions and contrayary to belief it is NOT environmentally friendly, just the opposite in production!!

What do you have to say about using 91,93 etc. octane fuel in the DR650? Does the manual call for 87?
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Old 11-13-2013, 11:47 AM   #83696
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ct-ktm View Post
Like What.?
One of them is more power! Ethanol is highly oxygenated by nature. Oxygenation is a way to to get more "air" into the engine without porting or wild cams (or on top of!). It will tolerate (or demand, depending on how you want to think about it) more compression and/or more ignition advance, as it is very detonation resistant (without involving lead or light aromatics, which are both really bad for humans to be around) while simultaneously having a cooling effect. Ethanol does require a different air/fuel ratio than gasoline, which is part of where the idea comes from that ethanol gives poor mileage. While that's technically true, an engine set up properly for ethanol makes more power than a gasoline engine of the same size, so that you could make the same power at a smaller displacement using ethanol, giving a significant portion of the mileage back. Of course using ethanol in an engine set up for gasoline will give poor results...

Some may argue that if there is any mileage hit whatsoever, that's bad. In the case of an adventure bike that will be used as intended (lots of distance covered with few refueling opportunities) I agree with the argument. However, when produced by proper methods, ethanol can be so much cheaper than gasoline that the loss in mileage will be irrelevant in most contexts.

I agree completely that the currently prevalent ethanol production methods are a really bad idea. We don't need GMOs and we don't need petroleum product based (fertilizer, pesticide and fuel) factory farming. Considering the high cost of producing corn, the low yield it produces (in terms of ethanol), and the transportation costs to get the end product to market, it's a losing proposition all around. There is also no morally sound argument for robbing the tax payer to support an "industry" that otherwise could not sustain itself.

The way ethanol can be of major benefit is to produce it locally in a free market or in co-ops using already existing food waste & green (yard, etc.) waste supplemented with fast growing, high yield plants that produce multiple harvests per year (switchgrass is one example) and don't need irrigation or pesticides. The waste from ethanol production can be used as super high-quality organic fertilizer. The transportation costs would be reduced to close to zero (in money and in energy). Ethanol-related industrial production with all of its drawbacks (including the subsidies) could be eliminated, and individuals & communities would be many steps closer to energy self sufficiency and independence.

Of course ethanol is cleaner out the tail pipe than gasoline.

In this greater context, I consider issues with gas tanks, fuel hoses, o-rings and gaskets to be somewhat trivial. The materials and technologies to deal with these exist, and are not that difficult to implement.

Please realize that big oil and the controllers in general would be quite happy to either keep things as they are, or to get rid of ethanol if it means going back to a purely mineral oil based fuel situation. Either way they retain their cash cow and their power. What they don't want is for their position to be challenged or compromised in any way, which properly implemented ethanol would do.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 11-13-2013, 11:56 AM   #83697
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Originally Posted by procycle View Post
Generates additional sales for folks who sell replacement carb parts.
It probably does, but if I personally were interested in that, I would not be cautioning people to refrain from doing things that cause the carb to wear out sooner, such as drilling slides, d-shaping or removing the needle spacer, or installing jet needles made out of hard materials (such as the DynoJet or Factory Pro), and I would not be encouraging them to improve their carburetor's under-diaphragm vent filtration.

Regards,

Derek

motolab screwed with this post 11-13-2013 at 12:06 PM
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Old 11-13-2013, 12:19 PM   #83698
amk
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tools and spares

The goal is to reduce weight/space taken by them, but still be able to get me going w/o towing. I am not planning to do a major engine overhaul, just general things that might have occurred on their own. Like a flat, a broken wire, or a minor short circuit.
Currently I carry:
Front/rear tubes
Two 30 cm long tire irons
A bicycle pump
A bicycle tire patch kit
A metal epoxy
Plastic ties
A bicycle shifting wire
Home made jump starters
A couple of fuses
Open end wrenches 24/22, 19/17, 12, 10, 8mm
A spark plug wrench
A double ended screwdriver
Long nose pliers/cutters
A small plastic bottle of chain lube

It all takes a front fender pouch, the oem tool tube, and a welder rod tube on the back. All sums up to 4 kg brutto. While it still is only 2% of wet bike mass, I like to reduce it. What would you do, but taking a tube out, and replacing tire irons with titanium/carbon wrench/iron sets?

amk screwed with this post 11-13-2013 at 12:26 PM
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Old 11-13-2013, 01:07 PM   #83699
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amk View Post
The goal is to reduce weight/space taken by them, but still be able to get me going w/o towing. I am not planning to do a major engine overhaul, just general things that might have occurred on their own. Like a flat, a broken wire, or a minor short circuit.
Currently I carry:
Front/rear tubes
Two 30 cm long tire irons
A bicycle pump
A bicycle tire patch kit
A metal epoxy
Plastic ties
A bicycle shifting wire
Home made jump starters
A couple of fuses
Open end wrenches 24/22, 19/17, 12, 10, 8mm
A spark plug wrench
A double ended screwdriver
Long nose pliers/cutters
A small plastic bottle of chain lube

It all takes a front fender pouch, the oem tool tube, and a welder rod tube on the back. All sums up to 4 kg brutto. While it still is only 2% of wet bike mass, I like to reduce it. What would you do, but taking a tube out, and replacing tire irons with titanium/carbon wrench/iron sets?

Well, you might want to attack the low-hanging fruit first. All those open end wrenches are probably steel, and likely heavy. Two alternatives: switch to an exotic material such as titanium or forged aluminum or find a combo tool that allows the heads to be swapped onto the standard lever arm. Given how fundamentally useful they are I'd be wary of going too cheap here.

Same with the tire irons. I prefer to carry three, and they are steel, so I know how heavy they are. I'm saying up for some forged AL ones. OTOH my current tire irons have 24/19 mm heads on one end, so I don't have to carry those wrenches.

Tubes - while I have never done so, I have heard some people have had success stuffing a 21" tube into an 17/18" rear tire in a pinch. Gets you back to civilization. This may allow you to lose one tube and carry a few patches / glue in your bicycle patch kit.

Have you ever actually used those jumper cables? I once made a pair out of 18GA wire that I carried around for years. When I went to use them they couldn't deliever the needed juice. (14GA max).

Everything else looks pretty fundamental. A cell phone and a credit card should form the basis of every situation as well. Not just for BMW riders - some times you might say to yourself "I'd give $300 to get out of here and back to work tomorrow...." Ka-ching!

Got duct tape? Bailing wire? Got a way to mend a chain or drop in a new clip link? Got a way to replace a sprocket? Got a way to .....

Good luck.
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Old 11-13-2013, 01:52 PM   #83700
amk
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Originally Posted by FlowBee View Post
Have you ever actually used those jumper cables?
I have, with a car though. They would had melted down if used long enough, but the car started with the first turn.
I will ditch the front tire, considering front flats 10 times less than rear.
I have considered buying tire irons/wrenches combos, but they are short, mine are heavy, but guarantee to brake the bead and put any tire on/off.

Thank you for reminding of duct tape/bailing wire, I will add them.

The chain/sprockets should withstand the ride if checked upfront. No need to carry anything.
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