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Old 11-12-2013, 06:50 PM   #12106
lightfighter
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Location: Sierra Vista AZ.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dad2bike View Post
Update on the EXC forks. OMG that was great! They were so plush.
I think I was having too much fun. I may have destroyed my Centerstand. I cased the bike really hard on a big rock. Even my friend heard the hit. I had to pull over after that. My teeth rattled. The stand is sitting a bit off to the side. Haven't had a chance to look it over. I'm thinking the centerstand gave it's life to protect my Linkage. It clearly would have been a bad scene.
I put my bike up on the center stand to get to the shock today, and the side stand was caddy whumpus. So I pulled it instead, and found that one of the bushings was completely broken circumferentially. The other beginning to crack down one side. No big hits, but a few smaller tags. I sent lost dog an email asking about how to buy spares....
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Old 11-12-2013, 06:58 PM   #12107
dad2bike
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Originally Posted by lightfighter View Post
I put my bike up on the center stand to get to the shock today, and the side stand was caddy whumpus. So I pulled it instead, and found that one of the bushings was completely broken circumferentially. The other beginning to crack down one side. No big hits, but a few smaller tags. I sent lost dog an email asking about how to buy spares....
This is my second stand. The first one failed like that. I'm hoping to figure out a better hinge for it. It seems the brackets pull to the middle. That puts huge stress on the bushings. The last thing I did was a pin to hold the brackets apart. I don't think it held up to the major hit I have it yesterday.

Sent from outside my mind.
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Old 11-12-2013, 08:06 PM   #12108
sidewayz_control
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Originally Posted by LukasM View Post



That is the typical fracture of a CrMo welded assembly. Fracture or buckeling will always happen beside the weld in the heat affected zone. CrMo is very easy to weld (for the sake of welding) but very difficult to weld if you don't want this condition to happen (heat affected zone). CrMo requires a controlled process, basic technic requires pre-heating the assembly, welding and them controlled cool down. But better is to perform post-process bake to normalize and stress relieve the assembly.

What worries me now is that I would have though that KTM would do a proper temper and stress relieve on their frames after welding. Although I guess most of us will not solicitate the frame to that extent. And there are other things to worry about in regards to CrMo.

CrMo is a fantastic material but must be treated with respect. Other reason from cracking besides the obvious big crash and fatigue, is corrossion (rust) induced cracking (probably what happened to Noah's frame couple with fatigue). Also there are stress induced cracks that appear over time. Stress induced cracks are due to the material receving a hard hit but will not necesssarily show evidence of damage or any permanent deformation. However stress is induced into the material and a crack or cracks will apear over time (aka weeks or months). This is mostly critical to CrMos that have been heat treated for greater tensile strength so not very likely for our frames.

These are also the reason why most racing sanctioning bodies have banned the use of CrMo for the construction of roll cages. Only the big budget factory teams can use this material because they have... the resources and the budget...

I worked on a Boeing 767 landing gear inner cylinder that had been dropped by a forklift operator from a height of only 2 feet. Not good at all but we were not worried too much. After dimensional checks and NDT (non destructive testing) crack checks the part was in perfect shape (The 767 is a tank). We however quarantined the part for 6 months to see if cracks would appear over time.

So I will be inspecting my frame once a year... that's why we have winter

Ivan
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Old 11-12-2013, 08:10 PM   #12109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sidewayz_control View Post
That is the typical fracture of a CrMo welded assembly. Fracture or buckeling will always happen beside the weld in the heat affected zone. CrMo is very easy to weld (for the sake of welding) but very difficult to weld if you don't want this condition to happen (heat affected zone). CrMo requires a controlled process, basic technic requires pre-heating the assembly, welding and them controlled cool down. But better is to perform post-process bake to normalize and stress relieve the assembly.

What worries me now is that I would have though that KTM would do a proper temper and stress relieve on their frames after welding. Although I guess most of us will not solicitate the frame to that extent. And there are other things to worry about in regards to CrMo.

CrMo is a fantastic material but must be treated with respect. Other reason from cracking besides the obvious big crash and fatigue, is corrossion (rust) induced cracking (probably what happened to Noah's frame couple with fatigue). Also there are stress induced cracks that appear over time. Stress induced cracks are due to the material receving a hard hit but will not necesssarily show evidence of damage or any permanent deformation. However stress is induced into the material and a crack or cracks will apear over time (aka weeks or months). This is mostly critical to CrMos that have been heat treated for greater tensile strength so not very likely for our frames.

I worked on a Boeing 767 landing gear inner cylinder that had been dropped by a forklift operator from a height of only 2 feet. Not good at all but we were not worried too much. After dimensional checks and NDT (non destructive testing) crack checks the part was in perfect shape (The 767 is a tank). We however quarantined the part for 6 months to see if cracks would appear over time.

So I will be inspecting my frame once a year... that's why we have winter

Ivan
Given the amount of abuse most of us hand out to these things, and the almost zero incidence of frame damage (outside of major crash damage), I don't think this is a biggie ...
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Old 11-12-2013, 08:17 PM   #12110
sidewayz_control
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Originally Posted by Hoots View Post
Given the amount of abuse most of us hand out to these things, and the almost zero incidence of frame damage (outside of major crash damage), I don't think this is a biggie ...
No definetly not a biggie but costs nothing keep an eye on things.

Looking at my bike as if in a trance beats shoveling snow when you live up here in Canuckistan

Ivan
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Old 11-12-2013, 09:36 PM   #12111
lightfighter
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Ok, before I spend money can I hear some yay or nay on what I think i need to do?

I'm 225 dressed to ride. I carry about 20lbs of luggage and crap.

My bike has 32mm of preload(I measured it, 188mm) into the shock spring. 40mm free sag. 135 mm of sag when me and my gear are mounted. I lifted to tail to make sure it's an 80 220 spring because those numbers seem odd.

I'm thinking I'll put a 9.5 from rallyraid on it, and skip the revalving for now(my second job evaporated on me, I'm broke!)

I'm also wondering if dumping the 5 weight fork oil for 2.5 might take some harsh out of the forks. That was a suggestion from a fellow redneck that seems too easy to be true.

lightfighter screwed with this post 11-13-2013 at 07:50 AM
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Old 11-13-2013, 03:12 AM   #12112
ktmmitch
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suspension

Quote:
Originally Posted by lightfighter View Post
Ok, before I spend money can I hear some yay or nay on what I think in red to do?

I'm 225 dressed to ride. I carry about 20lbs of luggage and crap.

My bike has 32mm of preload(I measured it, 188mm) into the shock spring. 40mm free sag. 135 mm of sag when me and my gear are mounted. I lifted to tail to make sure it's an 80 220 spring because those numbers seem odd.

I'm thinking I'll put a 9.5 from rallyraid on it, and skip the revalving for now(my second job evaporated on me, I'm broke!)

I'm also wondering if dumping the 5 weight fork oil for 2.5 might take some harsh out of the forks. That was a suggestion from a fellow redneck that seems too easy to be true.
What year bike is it?
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Old 11-13-2013, 06:10 AM   #12113
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Originally Posted by lightfighter View Post

I'm also wondering if dumping the 5 weight fork oil for 2.5 might take some harsh out of the forks. That was a suggestion from a fellow redneck that seems too easy to be true.
i'm ridin' an RFS bike, but the front forks are pretty similar if not the same.... last fork oil change i switched to the Silkolene RSF 2.5wt, and i really liked it, does seem a little more compliant... it's a little more $$$ than the Maxima, but not that much.... changing fork oil ain't all that, so it ain't gonna hurt to try it, and you gotta do it anyways....

also, if you have the preload adjustable fork caps, try reducing the preload... see what kinda preload spacers are inside the fork too... stiff springs w/less preload ride pretty nice.....

i dunno what the sag is on the big bikes, but overall, getting it right is the first step..... everybody's gotta ship their shizzit out to some expert... if you just spent the time and a little $$$ on the right spring rate so 'yer sag is on, it's freakin' huge.... i see pics of bikes ridin' around w/crazy amounts of stuff piled on them, i always wonder what that does to the sag and handling.... actually, i KNOW what it does.......

the KTM's all have excellent shocks/forks from the factory, and the damping WORKS, but damping ain't got anything to do w/sag or spring rates.... my $.03....

davesupreme screwed with this post 11-13-2013 at 06:19 AM
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Old 11-13-2013, 07:16 AM   #12114
lightfighter
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2011

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Originally Posted by ktmmitch View Post
what year bike is it?
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Old 11-13-2013, 08:35 AM   #12115
sprouty115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davesupreme View Post
i'm ridin' an RFS bike, but the front forks are pretty similar if not the same.... last fork oil change i switched to the Silkolene RSF 2.5wt, and i really liked it, does seem a little more compliant... it's a little more $$$ than the Maxima, but not that much.... changing fork oil ain't all that, so it ain't gonna hurt to try it, and you gotta do it anyways....

also, if you have the preload adjustable fork caps, try reducing the preload... see what kinda preload spacers are inside the fork too... stiff springs w/less preload ride pretty nice.....

i dunno what the sag is on the big bikes, but overall, getting it right is the first step..... everybody's gotta ship their shizzit out to some expert... if you just spent the time and a little $$$ on the right spring rate so 'yer sag is on, it's freakin' huge.... i see pics of bikes ridin' around w/crazy amounts of stuff piled on them, i always wonder what that does to the sag and handling.... actually, i KNOW what it does.......

the KTM's all have excellent shocks/forks from the factory, and the damping WORKS, but damping ain't got anything to do w/sag or spring rates.... my $.03....
+1

I have a 2013 and I weigh in at a healthy 250lbs before gear. So for me, when commuting the front seemed stiff and the back felt soft. The forks got better after playing around with compression and rebound, but the rear still feels soft no matter what I do to the sag. Then a few weeks ago I finally got to spend a full day in the woods (lots of rocks and roots) and suddenly the forks felt great. The rear on the other hand felt controlled, but just way, way too soft. So rather than drop $1K on anything, I'll throw a new spring on over the winter and see what that does. I'm betting for the riding I do, that it will be all that's needed.
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Old 11-13-2013, 08:44 AM   #12116
gen
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Originally Posted by sprouty115 View Post
So rather than drop $1K on anything, I'll throw a new spring on over the winter and see what that does. I'm betting for the riding I do, that it will be all that's needed.
If you do replace the rear spring, I strongly recommend replacing the OEM shock collar because, as is documented earlier in this thread, the OEM collar is too weak with upgraded springs and ends up being damaged and unusable.

Both Rally Raid UK and Super Plush Suspension sell upgraded shock collars. This is the Super Plush. You can see it is significantly taller (more teeth) than the OEM collar.

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Old 11-13-2013, 08:47 AM   #12117
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Yes, excellent idea.
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Old 11-13-2013, 09:00 AM   #12118
dad2bike
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Originally Posted by gen View Post
If you do replace the rear spring, I strongly recommend replacing the OEM shock collar because, as is documented earlier in this thread, the OEM collar is too weak with upgraded springs and ends up being damaged and unusable.

Both Rally Raid UK and Super Plush Suspension sell upgraded shock collars. This is the Super Plush. You can see it is significantly taller (more teeth) than the OEM collar.

I wonder what it would take to talk SP out of one of thse washers? I bought mine from KTM Twins back before that was included. It sure would make adjustments easier.
Maybe an email to KTM Twins is in order.
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Old 11-13-2013, 09:08 AM   #12119
lightfighter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sprouty115 View Post
+1

I have a 2013 and I weigh in at a healthy 250lbs before gear. So for me, when commuting the front seemed stiff and the back felt soft. The forks got better after playing around with compression and rebound, but the rear still feels soft no matter what I do to the sag. Then a few weeks ago I finally got to spend a full day in the woods (lots of rocks and roots) and suddenly the forks felt great. The rear on the other hand felt controlled, but just way, way too soft. So rather than drop $1K on anything, I'll throw a new spring on over the winter and see what that does. I'm betting for the riding I do, that it will be all that's needed.
i carry a little screwdriver. honestly i dont remember what the rebound clicker is at exactly, maybe middle of the range, but the compression damper is 10 in for street riding, 15 if its gonna be twisty, and full out for dirt/fire/blm roads(which out here means washboard and choppy half buried bowling balls.)
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Old 11-13-2013, 09:58 AM   #12120
Chip Stevens
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Lightfighter When you say all the way out do you mean 20 clicks or back it out until it stops. chip
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