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Old 06-21-2011, 10:53 AM   #31
Cortez OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjhess74 View Post
if the vulcan had a similar issue, then they may be onto something. only do one repair at a time so you will know which one was the problem.

i highly doubt the motor mounts are bad (unless one is not torqued), but i guess stranger things have happened.

$150 to repair the crank counterbalance seems like a deal if you feel the engine with your hand, is it runnig rougher/vibing more than it should?

keep us informed...
I'm not really sure since I didn't do that before.. the vibes are felt though the
handlebars/tank/footpegs.. everywhere.

It IS a lot worse then normal.

Some Versys owners had engine mount issues, so we'll look into that too.
I'm just not sure how the clutch can have influence with this.

I sure hope they find the cause of problems before I spend all of my monthly
income on it, $150 being 1/4 of it, the chain and oil another 1/4...

That's why I'm asking around as much as possible, but it seems NO ONE
ever had the same issues with their 650R/er6.

That's what you get for maintaining the bike religiously.. (it's in mint condition
otherwise, never abused, 20k trouble-free miles).
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Old 06-27-2011, 08:20 AM   #32
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We might have found it!

I don't have a picture of it, but this is the issue, more or less:

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/Ne...ifacepressure/

The frame on my bike seems to be fine though, and the engine mount is a bit
different then on the picture since I've got the faired version (naked on the pic).

HOWEVER!

The spacer mentioned in that article that sits between the frame and the
engine is too short, and there was some wear marks on it, suggesting that
it has been rattling.

Took everything off, went for a spin.. the bike is smoother then it was new.


Not just the vibrations that appeared over time, but the buzz/rattle that
I first thought was coming from the fairings, then the key/lock assembly
is ALSO gone. The spacer was making all the racket! SOB!

I'm now in the process of waiting for a new, 3,3mm longer spacer to be
fabricated but I'm still not sure how that will remove the vibrations, since
it was vibrating with the shorter one even when fully torqued (the frame
bends!).

Maybe some rubber washers might help.
We'll see.

The bike will spend the night in the workshop (first time in 20k miles!),
have it's oil changed (going from 10W40 to 15W50 by kawasaki's
suggestion) and a new DID chain/sprocket set will be installed (went
+1 on the front sprocket).

With some luck, the bike will be better then new after the process!


Wish my luck!
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Old 06-27-2011, 08:23 AM   #33
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Good luck
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Old 06-27-2011, 08:31 AM   #34
Cortez OP
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Thanks.

The shop is making the spacer from aluminium, they say that it'll absorb
vibrations better, and that rubber spacers wouldn't do anything on that
specific point (but I'd put them anyways just to see).

We'll see how it goes!

If I get rid of that rattle I'll be in heaven, I've been fighting it virtually
since day one (4 years now)!
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Old 06-27-2011, 10:01 AM   #35
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E X C E L L E N T !!!!!

I'm glad its looking like something very simple! I find it amazing that sometimes the smallest and cheapest parts can give the most trouble.

I was fairly certain it wasnt an internal engine issue...and I'm glad I'm right!
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Old 06-27-2011, 10:34 AM   #36
yokesman
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there is a problem with some of these bikes having cracked ,i believe it was under engine mount tabs, on the frame. ?
It should be an easy thing to see according to the pics i saw.
I donot remember which forum, whether brp650r,versys or ninja 650.
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Old 06-27-2011, 03:01 PM   #37
Cortez OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yokesman View Post
there is a problem with some of these bikes having cracked ,i believe it was under engine mount tabs, on the frame. ?
It should be an easy thing to see according to the pics i saw.
I donot remember which forum, whether brp650r,versys or ninja 650.
It's in the link I posted.
The crack appears under the right hand side engine mount tab, we found no
crack while looking, but with the tab down, there were NO vibrations whasoever!

We'll check for cracks again (tomorrow), and the new spacer should be ready
by then too and we'll see how that goes.

If the vibration comes back, I'm seriously tempted to run the bike without that
engine mount!

It's running THAT good
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Old 06-27-2011, 03:02 PM   #38
Cortez OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjhess74 View Post
E X C E L L E N T !!!!!

I'm glad its looking like something very simple! I find it amazing that sometimes the smallest and cheapest parts can give the most trouble.

I was fairly certain it wasnt an internal engine issue...and I'm glad I'm right!
Hell yeah, I'm glad too, but just hope the issue will go away with a longer
spacer, and somehow I'm skeptical.. We'll see, the workshop guy is positive
it'll work fine, but I don't understand why he doesn't want to use any
rubber washers around that spacer. I don't see the harm.
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Old 06-27-2011, 05:46 PM   #39
yokesman
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I have had both solid mounted and rubber mounted engines, it is best to go with the factories design and just fit it as the occasion presents itself.
years of old school brit bikes is a schooling in itself and very rewarding when it is as it should be.the production system just required owner involvement.
i donot have the engineering background to redesign something but to fit it sometimes give just the same result. enjoy your bike.
you might want to check the overall alignment of the engine as it sits in the frame with the bolts not torqued up to see just where all this is coming from or it may just continue but move to a new location.
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Old 06-28-2011, 12:56 PM   #40
Cortez OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yokesman View Post
I have had both solid mounted and rubber mounted engines, it is best to go with the factories design and just fit it as the occasion presents itself.
years of old school brit bikes is a schooling in itself and very rewarding when it is as it should be.the production system just required owner involvement.
i donot have the engineering background to redesign something but to fit it sometimes give just the same result. enjoy your bike.
you might want to check the overall alignment of the engine as it sits in the frame with the bolts not torqued up to see just where all this is coming from or it may just continue but move to a new location.
I just came back from the dealer, with the new upper right engine mount spacer
that's 0.3cm longer. The vibrations are better now, but not by much.

This is the part we replaced:


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Other problems are fixed, the heavy gearbox feel is gone with the new oil
(Motul 5100 15W50), the surging is gone after the chain replacement.

Only the vibes remain..

I already started a new thread on addressing the vibes at the footpegs
and handlebars, since I obviously can't get rid of the source.

I'll look into rubber mounting the handlebars, heavier bar-end weights,
maybe different grips and rubber footpegs. If anyone got any ideas, shoot!

The dealer/workshop guy said that rubber mounting the engine would
NOT help!

I'll just mention that with the upper right engine mount completely off
(just for a test run), THERE WERE NO VIBRATIONS WHAT-SO-EVER,
it was AMAZING! Put the mount back on, vibrations and buzz (audible
too) returns..

I'm open for suggestions!

Oh yeah, I already asked, they say there's no room to fit another cylinder
or two there..
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Old 06-28-2011, 01:48 PM   #41
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I had a ninja 650, first year. The buzz i eliminated by riding without the lower fairing. I had the bike apart a dozen times, fitted foam, the dealer kit, to no avail.

Check the tig weld on the right motor mount. There were frame failures there, as the spacer originally put in by Kawasaki was a bit too small, torquing the motor mount bolt drew the mount in closer, and in use, it failled.

The crack might be on the top side of the weld, btw. I accelerated the process by totalling my bike, and when the motor hit the road on the right side, it cracked the motor mount as described. Bad design, IMHO.
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Old 06-28-2011, 01:55 PM   #42
Cortez OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cogitate View Post
I had a ninja 650, first year. The buzz i eliminated by riding without the lower fairing. I had the bike apart a dozen times, fitted foam, the dealer kit, to no avail.

Check the tig weld on the right motor mount. There were frame failures there, as the spacer originally put in by Kawasaki was a bit too small, torquing the motor mount bolt drew the mount in closer, and in use, it failled.

The crack might be on the top side of the weld, btw. I accelerated the process by totalling my bike, and when the motor hit the road on the right side, it cracked the motor mount as described. Bad design, IMHO.
Thanks, but as I already wrote, we're not discussing the notorious 'fairing buzz'
here but actual vibrations that make your hands/feet go numb.

I have checked the weld, it's fine, I have replaced the spacer (pictured
above) with one that's longer, which helped a bit.

I guess it could be possible that we all missed the crack, but I doubt it,
3 of us were looking for it! Would that cause excessive vibrations?

There are no vibrations when that bolt / mounting point isn't used.
Even the fairing buzz goes away at ALL revs.

The bike has 20k miles, these vibrations were not here until recently!
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Old 06-29-2011, 11:24 AM   #43
Cortez OP
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Just did a quick fix, I added some bicycle tube cut-outs under these bolts on
both sides of the bike:



Might be my imagination, but it seems that it helped a bit.
It can't be worse!


Got a few nice recommendations for different grips and pegs, will try
some more rubbery stuff, maybe even grow an ass or something.
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Old 12-14-2013, 09:55 PM   #44
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Old thread this and I guess the OP solved the vibration problem on his bike.

A couple of days ago I rode a brand new Ninja 650 straight off the showroom floor and the buzzing in the seat and handle bars was the worst I've ever experienced. Travelling through town it was unbearable. I was very disappointed as in many ways the bike would have met my requirements and the price is OK by Aust standards.
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Old 12-15-2013, 08:14 AM   #45
Cortez OP
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Quote:
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Old thread this and I guess the OP solved the vibration problem on his bike.

A couple of days ago I rode a brand new Ninja 650 straight off the showroom floor and the buzzing in the seat and handle bars was the worst I've ever experienced. Travelling through town it was unbearable. I was very disappointed as in many ways the bike would have met my requirements and the price is OK by Aust standards.
Solved? Yes, I sold the bike.

The issue on 2006-2008 models was a frame mount on upper right side that
was fabricated 6mm too short, and with time it bends the frame and then the
frame cracks at that spot and vibrations get worse and worse as this slow
process is happening.

I was told that 2nd and 3rd gen bike had considerably less vibrations, and
to be perfectly honest I didn't have any issues with vibrations on mine for
the first 10k miles. They were there, but never bothered me.
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