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Old 01-06-2014, 04:01 PM   #1
airhead_irl OP
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Location: Southern Ireland (Irlande, Eire, Irland, Hibernia)
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Moto Guzzi NTX 650....recent addition

Being a long time, incurable BMW addict, this recently came my way and I thought it would be an interesting alternative to the flat twin - an Italian mini airhead GS so to speak: shaft drive, twin cylinder, twin shocks, 21" front wheel and most importantly.....a 32 litre fuel tank !! All the main attributes to make an interesting ADV bike ! It even came with period Krauser racks and panniers. I believe it is the only one in Ireland.
I started to partially strip the bike before I thought of taking any pictures so I loosely placed the seat, tank and side panels back on to get some quick pictures (so forgive the panel gaps !)........





Then this happened:





The bike runs and is useable. However, a previous owner had lower shocks fitted to lower the seat height so I need to replace these with 365 - 370 mm items to return the bike to it's original height. The exhaust muffler/silencer also has a slight blow which should not be a big deal to sort out.
The main thing that needs sorting though is the ignition system. It seems the dreaded (!) Motoplat ignition module(s) failed previously and it has a complex wiring system involving two auxiliary batteries and a DC/DC stabilizer !! I'm not too keen on returning to the Motoplat setup so I need to see what aftermarket electronic systems are available.
So for all you Guzzisti out there, I will be picking your brains to get this bike the TLC it deserves !
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Old 01-06-2014, 09:58 PM   #2
Precis
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You sir, have a GEM!!!
You're a lucky, lucky bar-steward, make no mistake.

I briefly had an NTX and threw lots of money at it before giving up on a bike which had been abused beyond resurrection.
Included was a dead ignition system at no entra charge, so here's what I did:
I found & fitted an ignition advance cam from any other small block that would have had points originally (V50/3, Monza, V65, etc, but not the earlier V50/1 or 2) and then fitted a Dyna S ignition, plus a pair of coils - you can get the Dyna ones, or find some Jappie jobs with the same resistance.
Just by itself, the uber-reliable Dyna S system improved my wife's Monza out of sight 15 years ago and is still performing perfectly.

Good luck with it all!
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Old 01-07-2014, 12:59 AM   #3
huub
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airhead_irl View Post




The bike runs and is useable. However, a previous owner had lower shocks fitted to lower the seat height so I need to replace these with 365 - 370 mm items to return the bike to it's original height. The exhaust muffler/silencer also has a slight blow which should not be a big deal to sort out.
nice bike!
if you change the rear suspension , make sure the swingarm ends up inline with the gearbox/engine
simply saising the rear end is not a good idea
The UJ on these doesnt like extra suspension travel .
I have destroyed UJ's in matter of days experimenting with the rear suspension.
it is also a good idea to fit a steel sleeve in the rear of the gearbox ,
To stop the rear end of the box from exploding if a UJ fails.

i think ignitech makes a setup, using the original pickups
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Old 01-07-2014, 02:45 AM   #4
airhead_irl OP
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Thanks for your thoughts guys !

Precis: Thanks for the info on the Dyna setup. I have been looking at their
website and checking their stuff out. That may be the the best
option as regards expense as kits like Silent Hektik seem to be
pretty pricey !

Huub: I remember you pointing out the suspension to me in another
thread. Thanks for that. As a result I found the measurements of
the factory shock (Marzocchi ?) which I believe to be ~ 370 mm.
Do you think the swingarm would handle the original length
shocks ? Also, I think Hagon make 365 mm shocks so just slightly
shorter than original.
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1980 Honda C90ZZ

airhead_irl screwed with this post 01-07-2014 at 03:03 AM
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Old 01-07-2014, 07:37 AM   #5
huub
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airhead_irl View Post
Thanks for your thoughts guys !

Huub: I remember you pointing out the suspension to me in another
thread. Thanks for that. As a result I found the measurements of
the factory shock (Marzocchi ?) which I believe to be ~ 370 mm.
Do you think the swingarm would handle the original length
shocks ? Also, I think Hagon make 365 mm shocks so just slightly
shorter than original.

the stock setup ( with a 370 mm shock) is fine,
just dont be tempted to wind the spring preload to max , to get more suspension travel
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Old 01-07-2014, 09:39 AM   #6
airhead_irl OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huub View Post
the stock setup ( with a 370 mm shock) is fine,
just dont be tempted to wind the spring preload to max , to get more suspension travel
Will any 370 mm shocks be suitable ? I have noticed that Triumph Thruxtons, Kawasaki Z1300 and some other bikes use 365 mm - 370 mm shocks. The NTX seems pretty light especially compared to the Z1300 !!
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Old 01-07-2014, 01:21 PM   #7
airhead_irl OP
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For anybody following this, the wiring as it is today:

Besides the main cranking battery, the bike also has these.....





This is what's inside the grey box:





Hopefully I'll get to remove the unwanted bits later in the week and see where I stand then.
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1987 Moto Guzzi NTX 650
1980 Honda C90ZZ

airhead_irl screwed with this post 01-08-2014 at 02:53 PM
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Old 01-08-2014, 03:38 AM   #8
Precis
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Avoid Hagons as if they have the pox (which they do). I made the cheap-ass mistake of fitting a pair, years ago.
One started vomitting oil onto the rear brake within days of installation, thanks to a standard of chrome-plating on the shaft that would be deemed unacceptable on the tread of a Soviet-era battle-tank.
The other shock merely seized a couple of weeks into our relationship.

YMMV - but I doubt it.
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Old 01-08-2014, 05:11 AM   #9
airhead_irl OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Precis View Post
Avoid Hagons as if they have the pox (which they do). I made the cheap-ass mistake of fitting a pair, years ago.
One started vomitting oil onto the rear brake within days of installation, thanks to a standard of chrome-plating on the shaft that would be deemed unacceptable on the tread of a Soviet-era battle-tank.
The other shock merely seized a couple of weeks into our relationship.

YMMV - but I doubt it.
Good info ! I may have to check out the alternatives then. I have Ikons on the BMW's but they are expensive these days (well, relative to the price of the bike).
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Old 01-09-2014, 03:53 PM   #10
airhead_irl OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Precis View Post
I found & fitted an ignition advance cam from any other small block that would have had points originally (V50/3, Monza, V65, etc, but not the earlier V50/1 or 2) and then fitted a Dyna S ignition, plus a pair of coils - you can get the Dyna ones, or find some Jappie jobs with the same resistance.
Precis,
Did you have any problems when fitting the Dyna S system as regards
fitting the new rotor to the cam ?
I found this paragraph below in another NTX thread:

"Dynajet UK had sent me a V65 Dyna ignition but bizarrely the rotor didn't fit the NTX camshaft so the kit was no use...I couldn't machine the rotor to fit as the sleeve was very thin and would have collapsed.
Nothing else could be found..the NTX has a totally different set up to the street Guzzis."

Or is this why you suggest fitting the advance cam from a points bike ?
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Old 01-09-2014, 05:47 PM   #11
Precis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airhead_irl View Post
Precis,
Did you have any problems when fitting the Dyna S system as regards
fitting the new rotor to the cam ?
I found this paragraph below in another NTX thread:

"Dynajet UK had sent me a V65 Dyna ignition but bizarrely the rotor didn't fit the NTX camshaft so the kit was no use...I couldn't machine the rotor to fit as the sleeve was very thin and would have collapsed.
Nothing else could be found..the NTX has a totally different set up to the street Guzzis."

Or is this why you suggest fitting the advance cam from a points bike ?
Exactly - it was a few years ago and details are misty, but ditching the standard electronic ignition system in favour of the Dyna did require the standard points system's base-plate.
At the time it seemed blindingly obvious, with just a bit of frigging about to actually find the parts I needed.
I'd seriously doubt that even Guzzi varied the details on this limited run of bikes very much.
FWIW, my wife's similar V65TT was fitted with some form of Pirhana electric trigger.
It was very Heath Robinson, but as it worked just fine, I didn't feel any great urge to 'fix' it!
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Old 01-09-2014, 07:59 PM   #12
NJ-Bill
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If there was a 650 twin Adv bike with a shaft drive available here, one would be in my garage. Thanks for inviting us along for the resurrection.
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Old 01-10-2014, 07:32 AM   #13
airhead_irl OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Precis View Post
Exactly - it was a few years ago and details are misty, but ditching the standard electronic ignition system in favour of the Dyna did require the standard points system's base-plate.
At the time it seemed blindingly obvious, with just a bit of frigging about to actually find the parts I needed.
I'd seriously doubt that even Guzzi varied the details on this limited run of bikes very much.
FWIW, my wife's similar V65TT was fitted with some form of Pirhana electric trigger.
It was very Heath Robinson, but as it worked just fine, I didn't feel any great urge to 'fix' it!
That's what I was thinking last night when I was reading your last reply.
Excellent, thanks ! My next port of call will be to Pete at Reboot Guzzi
for one of these base plates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ-Bill View Post
If there was a 650 twin Adv bike with a shaft drive available here, one would be in my garage. Thanks for inviting us along for the resurrection.
Cheers Bill !
It was too much of an interesting bike to leave behind me so I thought
why not ! It doesn't need cosmetics really just a few electric upgrades
and a good general service (I hope !).
I spend a lot of time reading other people's threads so I thought I'd add
my own as it may be of interest to some people.
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Old 01-10-2014, 07:43 AM   #14
flemsmith
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Why the DC-DC converter?

That bodge of wiring modifications is interesting. Did the bike run when you bought it?

As these are pretty rare, would be interesting to see details of how you correct the wiring, esp the points plate.

Congratulations, that's gonna be a cool bike when you get it reliable.

roy
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Old 01-11-2014, 05:08 AM   #15
airhead_irl OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flemsmith View Post
That bodge of wiring modifications is interesting. Did the bike run when you bought it?

As these are pretty rare, would be interesting to see details of how you correct the wiring, esp the points plate.

Congratulations, that's gonna be a cool bike when you get it reliable.

roy
Hi Roy,
I completely agree: the current wiring is most unusual.
The bike ran when I bought it. However, below 1200 rpm it seems to run on 1 cylinder. Probably due to weak spark.
At the moment I'm removing the "extra" wiring and then take it from there.
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