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Old 08-05-2012, 02:18 PM   #226
LocuL
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I run my 530 exc with a 12 cell Sycl. Damn it spins.


Will try it on the project when the day comes.
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Old 08-12-2012, 03:17 AM   #227
The Bigfella
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I just posted this over in the Oz regional forum, but its relevant here:

My Shorai Lithium Iron (LiFe4) 18 AH battery died the other day.

It'd been in since before last year's Alpine Rally in June... so at least 15 months, maybe 18. After the Alpine, it left Sydney on July 29th and it's had a hard life on Cape York and in Asia since. In the cities, I've generally hit the kill switch at lights, so lots of starting work. Its done about 25,000km.

I got water in the fuel and trying to get it restarted the battery died after maybe 10 or 12 goes at starting it. The bike shop tried to charge it, but it didn't take a charge.

Its gone... replaced with a $57 lead acid battery.

I'd happily buy another one... not that I could get one here on the Burma border in Western Thailand. The guys at the bike shop were very impressed at the light weight btw...
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Old 01-10-2014, 07:38 PM   #228
_cy_
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyborg View Post
I didn't find many pictures of the new Shorai battery alternative for the LC8 in OC so I thought I'd post my install.

Shorai is a new company in the US. I met the President of Shorai USA, David Radford, at the Seattle Motorcycle Show this year. The batteries looked amazing, and so light I thought they were just demo cases with nothing in them, but David said no, they were the real thing.

Read up here:
http://www.shoraipower.com/

I got one for my 2007 KTM 990S. The original lead acid battery was finally dying and I needed a new one. I wanted to try something new and these appeared just in time. I decided to give this new Lithium Iron Phosphate battery technolgy a try.

I chose the LFX18A1-BS12. It came in a box with a selection of sticky-one-side foam strips to help it fit the usually larger space the OEM battery took. You have to trim to whatever fit you want






Here is a physical comparison of the
OEM 8.6lb Lead/Acid v.s. 2.12lb Shorai (6.48lb difference)
weighed on my digital postage scale at home, not a lab test scale.

Front



Side


Top





I trimmed a few foam pieces and installed in the sides of the rubber OEM battery base






Then installed the battery in the rubber base






and installed in the bike. Note the foam strip I used in the top lid of the battery box to help hold the little Shorai battery in place.



That's it. Quick and easy install.


I topped off the battery with a Shorai approved Battery Tender



or




Then came the test. WOW! It cranks the bike with serious authority easily as good or better than the OEM Yuasa lead/acid, even at 30F in my garage. Bike fired right up first crank. At real cold temps, the first cranking cycle may seem slow, but it heats the battery internally (a good thing) and 2nd crank cycle and after will be full force. I was impressed. Tried half a dozen starts after the first one and it spun the bike over quick every time!

Happy customer so far.

Now for the long term testing with my all year, all season commuting and trips, heated gear, etc...





BTW, I got mine at the first local biz to get them in the Seattle area, I was anxious They also offer an ADVrider discount.

http://www.advmachines.com/category_s/77.htm

other stocking dealers listed here:
http://www.shoraipower.com/t-shorai-dealers.aspx
folks .. reason Shorai LFX18 are failing is battery is too small ... forget about pb/eq .. LFX18 = 5AH actual .. note some newer LFX18 were upsized to larger actual AH.

sizing for starting only is a recipe for failure .. a 5AH actual LiFePO4 will crank 990 adv with no problems during moderate weather. where problems starts is when temps dip...

_cy_ screwed with this post 01-10-2014 at 09:10 PM
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Old 01-12-2014, 07:40 AM   #229
ridetheblock
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Just another data point - I've bought 3 of the Shorai batteries for various bikes, from the smallest one for a mini bike to the biggest for a Guzzi - they ALL failed quickly. I even bought the Shorai charger, thinking my Battery Tender wasn't charging them correctly. The POS charger won't even charge them. I've heard Shorai might help if I call them but I've been too lazy to take the time to do it. I'm pretty disappointed that a $300 battery didn't even last 6 months.
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Old 01-12-2014, 08:08 AM   #230
_cy_
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ridetheblock View Post
Just another data point - I've bought 3 of the Shorai batteries for various bikes, from the smallest one for a mini bike to the biggest for a Guzzi - they ALL failed quickly. I even bought the Shorai charger, thinking my Battery Tender wasn't charging them correctly. The POS charger won't even charge them. I've heard Shorai might help if I call them but I've been too lazy to take the time to do it. I'm pretty disappointed that a $300 battery didn't even last 6 months.
more information please .. something is not right about what you are posting. ALL LiFeOP4 will fail if undersized. which is not the problem when using Shorai LFX36 (14AH) vs using Shorai LFX18 (5AH) which is too small to support most large motorcycles. note some models for newer model LFX18 has larger actual AH. talk about making things even more confusing.

on long term tests Shorai LFX36 (14AH) has given excellent performance down to 15f on R80G/S. largest size Shorai should handle your Guzzi with no problems.

early Guzzi uses the same alternator as airheads. they can be problematic with low charging voltages and low wattage output.

a Battery Tender is not recommended ... don't leave hooked your LiFePO4 up for extended time periods unless it's a specific charger like Optimate Lithium LiFePO4 charger.

don't blame your new LiFePO4 battery, if voltage is run to dead .. that's operator error. leaving your LiFePO4 dead for extended time will kill it. if you accidentally run LiFePO4 dead .. immediately charge back up. don't go below 12.875v (20%) for max life.

at the very first sign of battery slowdown .. STOP .. LiFePO4 has an almost flat discharge curve .. all or none .. your LiFePO4 will go from full power to zero power .. pushing on will kill your new LiFePO4.

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Old 01-12-2014, 09:40 AM   #231
gefr
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I think the problem arises from Shorai company.

They suggest the LFX18A1-BS12 for the KTM990. This is only true for size needs. It is not customer's fault they buy it and find out it is not adequate. LFX36 is not fitting in there, so maybe Shorai should make the LFX36 to fit.
Cheers.
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Old 01-12-2014, 10:24 AM   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gefr View Post
They suggest the LFX18A1-BS12 for the KTM990. This is only true for size needs. It is not customer's fault they buy it and find out it is not adequate. LFX36 is not fitting in there, so maybe Shorai should make the LFX36 to fit.
Cheers.
Light Weight Battery Huh? I don't think so... I actually found this made my 950SE 400lbs HEAVIER. How is that possible? Because a 400 lb Motorcycle with a Dead Battery has to be pushed!
Wasn't impressed with starting ability in Cooler Temps in Spring, or Fall. Actually didn't make my standard late Year trip because i was concerned the Bike wouldn't start in the Morning.
I have the Shorai Charger, and after having the Battery go Flat Dead, not able to revive, within the warranty period, my Dealer contacted Shorai, and they wanted the battery sent in. How can i Ride WITHOUT a Battery, i can't.
So my Season ended early because of this. Shorai contacted my Dealer, and said they would only pro-rate 50% of Cost. Dealer also had to pay to ship back.
To make this long Story Shorter, i have gone back to a Yuasa Lead Acid Battery, that i have used for the last Three Decades of Motorcycle ownership.

Good-Bye Shorai's...
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Old 01-12-2014, 03:01 PM   #233
_cy_
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gefr View Post
They suggest the LFX18A1-BS12 for the KTM990. This is only true for size needs. It is not customer's fault they buy it and find out it is not adequate. LFX36 is not fitting in there, so maybe Shorai should make the LFX36 to fit.
Cheers.
it's sooo confusing to the point the only reliable metric to determine actual Amp Hour is weight. it's just not practical to measure AH for every new LiFePO4 that comes out. as the market gets more saturated with new LiFePo4 companies. problem will get even worst.

LFX18A1-BS12 is listed at 2.3lb for an estimated actual 7amp hour. much better than original LFX18 of 5AH actual. which might do it for moderate weather, but too small adventure duties for 990 Adv.

for adventure duties far from support including cold weather .. IMHO one needs to stuff the largest LiFePO4 that will fit into battery tray .. that would be EarthX ETX36 (14AH) which fit 990's battery tray or go with larger than stock AGM. original AGM AH is too small for cold weather duties.

closing in on one year long term test for EarthX ETX36 on R80G/S .. which has much higher starting requirements than 990. no problems starting down to 20f with plenty of AH reserves.

Shorai LFX36 is just too big for 990Adv battery tray.

Shorai LFX36 next to EarthX ETX36

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Old 01-12-2014, 03:59 PM   #234
cyborg OP
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Folks, I posted this thread in 2011 when Shorai was just about the only game in town for well packaged lightweight lithium based batteries. Most other options then were 123 packs in shrink-wrapped bundles and I tried a few of those with not good results, poor quality control.

The Shorai LFX18 was the biggest Shorai "AH" size that fit in the 990 OEM battery box and that was frustrating because while it starts the bike fine over 50F you have to get into tedious and marginally successful "warm up" cycles to get the battery warm enough to start the bike when it's really cold. That's hard on the starter and electrics of the bike, with the sagging voltage and all.

I've worked with Shorai since they started and they treated me well, upgrading me through a few newer versions. Unfortunately they just don't make a battery currently that I know of that will fit in the OEM battery box and reliably start the 990 in the low 40's, and worse below freezing, which yes, I do ride in. I ride all year in the Seattle area.

My 'theory' is that Lithium Amp Hour ratings don't mean much when it starts to get cold. My only thought, since I have jumped onto the Lithium battery bandwagon like a typical OCD engineer that I am, was to simply find a larger size Lithium that will still fit my OEM 990 battery box without any ridiculous modding.

My solution after looking at the new options in late 2012 (and after looking at the battery threads on ADV and elsewhere) was EarthX. They have a built-in battery charging BMS to keep the cells properly topped off with a single-source charging supply like the bikes charging system. That's the environment the battery has to live in, and not require some special external charger, to be a true drop-in replacement..

I contacted EarthX and their ETXxxC size case fits the 990 OEM battery box just like the OEM Yuasa, no spacers needed. Perfect!

EarthX claimed, like Shorai, that the ETX18C would be more than adequate for my 990. I said it wouldn't be, but they wanted me to test it. Once again I tested it at the colder temps with all-night cold soaks in my unheated garage and outside all day at work, in the Winter. The EarthX was a bit better than the Shorai but not by much. It was undersized for the application I needed which is ALL YEAR RIDING even when it gets below freezing, not just fair-weather Starbucks riding.

I let EarthX know my findings and they upgraded me to the ETX24C. That battery has been great even down to 25F this winter. Around 20F it gets a little marginal, but it rarely gets that cold in Seattle so the ETX24C gets my thumbs up and I've been running with it for a year of daily commutes even into our unusually cold Winter this year, with no problems.

If you have a big pocketbook, the EarthX ETX36C is the biggest size that will still drop into the 990 OEM battery box and that would definitely kick this beast over at any temp.

I have a 2011 Husaberg 390 with a 14Ah Shorai in it (before I knew about EarthX) and it has functioned perfectly even down to 15F, and contunues to do so. 14Ah, whatever that fuzzy number means, was plenty to kick over the 390cc thumper easily and it continues to work well, so I'm not changing it. If it dies, I may very well consider an EarthX for it due to my good experiences with that product.

I have a few of the LFX18A1-BS12's sitting on my workbench not doing much, but I keep them charged and handy for booster/backup batteries if I ever need them. They do hold a charge for a long time like all lithiums, so I rarely have to top them off.

If Shorai would actually put enough boost in the LFX18A1-BS12 case (there's lots of empty air space even in their smaller case) it would no doubt work as well as the EarthX 24Ah (fuzzy number) but economically I doubt they would want to do that, plus the built-in (charging-only) BMS and perfect physical fit of the EarthX edges it out over the Shorai, for me.

These days you have LOTS more lithium batt options, and they all crow about being the best. These are the two brands I've tried and there you have it.

If I could lock this thread I would, but I'm not a mod. The LFX18A1-BS12 is not up to the job for what I needed, but again when I started this thread I did not know that and presented my install it as-is.

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Old 01-12-2014, 05:47 PM   #235
Brown Dog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LAKEMONSTER View Post
... i have gone back to a Yuasa Lead Acid Battery ... Good-Bye Shorai's...
+1

AGM or Go Home
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Old 01-12-2014, 07:14 PM   #236
_cy_
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyborg View Post
I contacted EarthX and their ETXxxC size case fits the 990 OEM battery box just like the OEM Yuasa, no spacers needed. Perfect!

EarthX claimed, like Shorai, that the ETX18C would be more than adequate for my 990. I said it wouldn't be, but they wanted me to test it. Once again I tested it at the colder temps with all-night cold soaks in my unheated garage and outside all day at work, in the Winter. The EarthX was a bit better than the Shorai but not by much. It was undersized for the application I needed which is ALL YEAR RIDING even when it gets below freezing, not just fair-weather Starbucks riding.

I let EarthX know my findings and they upgraded me to the ETX24C. That battery has been great even down to 25F this winter. Around 20F it gets a little marginal, but it rarely gets that cold in Seattle so the ETX24C gets my thumbs up and I've been running with it for a year of daily commutes even into our unusually cold Winter this year, with no problems.

If you have a big pocketbook, the EarthX ETX36C is the biggest size that will still drop into the 990 OEM battery box and that would definitely kick this beast over at any temp.

I have a 2011 Husaberg 390 with a 14Ah Shorai in it (before I knew about EarthX) and it has functioned perfectly even down to 15F, and contunues to do so. 14Ah, whatever that fuzzy number means, was plenty to kick over the 390cc thumper easily and it continues to work well, so I'm not changing it. If it dies, I may very well consider an EarthX for it due to my good experiences with that product.

I have a few of the LFX18A1-BS12's sitting on my workbench not doing much, but I keep them charged and handy for booster/backup batteries if I ever need them. They do hold a charge for a long time like all lithiums, so I rarely have to top them off.

If Shorai would actually put enough boost in the LFX18A1-BS12 case (there's lots of empty air space even in their smaller case) it would no doubt work as well as the EarthX 24Ah (fuzzy number) but economically I doubt they would want to do that, plus the built-in (charging-only) BMS and perfect physical fit of the EarthX edges it out over the Shorai, for me.

These days you have LOTS more lithium batt options, and they all crow about being the best. These are the two brands I've tried and there you have it.

If I could lock this thread I would, but I'm not a mod. The LFX18A1-BS12 is not up to the job for what I needed, but again when I started this thread I did not know that and presented my install it as-is.
back just a few short years ago LiFePO4 for motorcycles was so new battery mfg sure didn't know it all .. they were winging it just like we did. fortunately the technology is maturing along with our knowledge base. my LiFePO4 testing thread has morphed into world's largest/best resource for motorcycle LiFePO4.

from what I can tell Shorai was the first to come out with the very confusing pb/eq system. which grossly inflated actual amp hour capacity. the other battery mfg that followed was forced to use similar ratings or they couldn't sell their LiFePO4 batteries.

it's gotten so bad the only reliable metric is weight.

Shorai LFX18A1-BS12 = 2.4 lb ... EarthX ETX24 = 2.3 lb
both are about 7AH actual capacity ...

on 200amp crank tests EarthX ETX24 (7AH) performed substantially better than Shorai LFX21 (7AH, 2lb 14oz) ..

Shorai LFX21 nor EarthX ETX24 was large enough for winter use on R80G/S test mule. however Shorai LFX36 (14AH) and EarthX ETX36 (14AH) both did an outstanding job down to 15f on R80G/S.

carburetor R80G/S has much higher starting requirement than a modern fuel inj 990adv.

forget pb/eq it's next to worthless. more accurately worst than worthless as it's done huge damage in terms of perception after your high $$$ LiFePO4 fails due to under sizing.

_cy_ screwed with this post 01-12-2014 at 08:34 PM
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Old 01-13-2014, 02:07 AM   #237
_cy_
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brown Dog View Post
+1

AGM or Go Home
have repeated posted unless someone is willing to spending the $$$ for a properly sized LiFePO4 .. much better to go with AGM.

for LC8 folks due to battery tray size limitations choices are limited. for adventure duties far from any support, including cold weather. stuff the largest LiFePO4 you can fit into space. that would be EarthX ETX36 (14AH).

for moderate temps only LC8 riders ... EarthX ETX24 (7AH) and AntiGravity 12 cell (7AH) might do it. both are excellent batteries with limited AH capacity which may not start your 990 when temps dip down.
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Old 01-13-2014, 02:48 AM   #238
EvilClown
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyborg View Post
...
If I could lock this thread I would, but I'm not a mod. The LFX18A1-BS12 is not up to the job for what I needed, but again when I started this thread I did not know that and presented my install it as-is.

Thank you for the update.

Might be worthwhile to edit your first post with a link to this update or just cut and paste it in there somehow. Good info.
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Old 01-13-2014, 09:39 AM   #239
EastSideSM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LAKEMONSTER View Post
Light Weight Battery Huh? I don't think so... I actually found this made my 950SE 400lbs HEAVIER. How is that possible? Because a 400 lb Motorcycle with a Dead Battery has to be pushed!
Wasn't impressed with starting ability in Cooler Temps in Spring, or Fall. Actually didn't make my standard late Year trip because i was concerned the Bike wouldn't start in the Morning.
I have the Shorai Charger, and after having the Battery go Flat Dead, not able to revive, within the warranty period, my Dealer contacted Shorai, and they wanted the battery sent in. How can i Ride WITHOUT a Battery, i can't.
So my Season ended early because of this. Shorai contacted my Dealer, and said they would only pro-rate 50% of Cost. Dealer also had to pay to ship back.
To make this long Story Shorter, i have gone back to a Yuasa Lead Acid Battery, that i have used for the last Three Decades of Motorcycle ownership.

Good-Bye Shorai's...
Similar story here. I had first one replaced under warranty, when the second one failed, they pointed the finger at my charging system (even though it checked out) and offered a 50% refund on it. Went back to stock Yuasa battery. It lasted 5 years, bike stored outside and in unheated garage during winters, never was on a tender. I use the Shorai as basically a shop battery and just keep it charged. I would not trust it on a trip EVER AGAIN.
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Old 01-13-2014, 11:38 AM   #240
_cy_
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastSideSM View Post
Similar story here. I had first one replaced under warranty, when the second one failed, they pointed the finger at my charging system (even though it checked out) and offered a 50% refund on it. Went back to stock Yuasa battery. It lasted 5 years, bike stored outside and in unheated garage during winters, never was on a tender. I use the Shorai as basically a shop battery and just keep it charged. I would not trust it on a trip EVER AGAIN.
more info please .. what model Shorai failed twice on your LC8?
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