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Old 01-26-2014, 06:24 PM   #31
DaveBall
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Seems to me that this is a classic example of not riding to the current conditions and not having enough experience riding in those conditions.

Whenever there is the chance of slippery roads, give yourself a lot more room for maneuvering. And you have to totally change your method of riding. Don't accelerate in corners, especially when you have different surfaces to go over. Expect the totally unexpected.

And don't expect something like traction control to save you from lack of ability.

The above may seem harsh, but better to receive this kind of advice, than what they would give you in the emergency room.
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Old 01-26-2014, 08:30 PM   #32
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I am a retired ER nurse. We got to see a lot of people who rode after dark in weather where the motorcycle shouldn't have been out at all. No sympathy for this type of situation. From what I saw in the video, you shouldn't have been out on the bike.
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Old 01-27-2014, 12:03 AM   #33
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To those who have given a thoughtful response, thank you very much!
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Old 01-28-2014, 04:31 AM   #34
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If you enter a turn, and the tyre slides sideways simply because traction underneath is so poor (the surface is icy, or just otherwise very slippery), then TC won't save you.

TC can only save you, if you make your rear wheel break traction, by giving too much throttle. And again, if you break traction by using brakes, it won't help (ABS in some cases might, though).
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Old 01-29-2014, 05:41 PM   #35
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Trials Turn in Mud.

I am a long time trials motorcycle rider (35+years) and only took up street riding a about 5 years ago. Old habits are really hard to change so I really couldn't tell you if this is proper street technique or not.
But in trials riding, especially in mud and slick wet rocks which we have plenty of in the Pacific Northwest it is very , very important to weight the outside peg as you initiate the turn. Yes you can lean the bike to the inside and turn the bars. Of course this is done standing up on a trials bike but I can do the same thing sitting down on my 990 Adv. As told by many pro-trials instructors this allows your body (center of gravity) to be centered and weighted over the contact patch of your tires in the turn. It is so easy to see what happens on a trials bike in slippery conditions when you drop your shoulder to the inside putting your weight to the inside on a slippery turn. The bike immediately spins the rear tire to the outside of the turn and you dab to the inside.
Keep your inside arm straight and bend your outside arm and transfer your weight to the outside peg. Trials riding teaches one many things without the consequences of falling on a big bike. I have fallen a "billion" times on my trials bike, worst case a bump or two here or there knock on wood. - Jack
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Old 01-29-2014, 07:30 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sideup View Post
I am a long time trials motorcycle rider (35+years) and only took up street riding a about 5 years ago. Old habits are really hard to change so I really couldn't tell you if this is proper street technique or not.
But in trials riding, especially in mud and slick wet rocks which we have plenty of in the Pacific Northwest it is very , very important to weight the outside peg as you initiate the turn. Yes you can lean the bike to the inside and turn the bars
appreciate where you're coming from as regards dirt riding , but putting your weight onto the outside footpeg as you initiate a turn is not something for the road.

for road riding , just concentrate on the countersteering and flick the bike in.

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Old 01-29-2014, 07:56 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pistole View Post
appreciate where you're coming from as regards dirt riding , but putting your weight onto the outside footpeg as you initiate a turn is not something for the road.

for road riding , just concentrate on the countersteering and flick the bike in.

.
Of course I am only saying this technic is good if you suspect slick conditions. Not normal everyday riding.
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Old 01-29-2014, 08:18 PM   #38
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Weighting the pegs is one of the controls of a motorcycle. I saved myself crashing once when overtaking a slower group and one of them panicked in a corner and I had to avoid brake. (Yes I was too close, yes I know, yes I do not do that now). Then after slowing, I was anxious to resume speed, to anxious. Yep, second link in the accident chain. I slid out the rear, by not chopping the throttle and weighting the outside peg, I brought it back in line. As they teach, break one link in the chain anywhere and no crash. Some old dirt bike memory kicked in and saved my plastic and more on the final like of that accident chain. Learn to use all the controls. All of them.

The way I practice this on a heavy street bike you do not want to crash, is to ride on gravel roads or in a grassy pasture while standing on the pegs. Re-enforce that skill and maybe it will be there to save your sorry ass.

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Old 01-30-2014, 11:06 PM   #39
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I wish there was a way to practice riding in these conditions on a street bike, but I can't come up with anything. The slurpee mix was unexpected, but there it was, and next time I need a better plan.

I am going to find a way to get dirt bike training at least.

Should the same scenario as I encountered in the video occur again, for now my approach would be to just go straight ahead, apply light rear brake before running off of the road, wait for rearward traffic to pass, and then proceed very slowly, avoiding any turn maneuvers as long as the slurpee mix continues.
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Old 01-31-2014, 02:57 AM   #40
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if you wanna ride in wintry road conditions, then get some proper studded tyres, and riding gear. Preferably switch to a more suitable bike as well.

Winter on 2 wheels without good preparations will be extremely uncomfortable, and most likely dangerous, too.
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Old 02-01-2014, 01:44 PM   #41
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rpeter ~

Glad you're OK, first and foremost. Read through your post and didn't see this mentioned but what tires were you running and how long into your trip were you? It's night, it's wet, it's cold; street tires that perhaps weren't even warmed up being asked to handle all that may be asking too much of them.
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Old 02-01-2014, 03:07 PM   #42
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The tires are Angel GT. I've been riding year round in New England for the last 15 years or so and have managed to stay upright, obviously avoiding anything at all like what was in the video. On that particular night I chose the wrong route. The next time it happens I think I will know what to do - turn around!
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Old 02-02-2014, 11:10 AM   #43
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A trolley track bit my ass in San Francisco one rainy night years ago. I wasn't even accelerating or at an angle; one second I was up, the next, I was bouncing along the street on all fours. It can happen just that fast.

I suppose turning around is your best solution here.
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Old 02-02-2014, 05:58 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfgc2310 View Post
TC will save your ass when a completely impossible to predict road surface condition changes dramatically, like an oil spill.
Dude, you are so harsh! How is ice or a cold wet paint stripe more predictable than oil after riding on a previously high-traction surface?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfgc2310 View Post
I don't think TC is for intentional excessive throttle application.
I urge you to watch any road racing series that allow TC as part of the bike setup. MotoGP has the best examples and I think it was Pedrosa that talked about learning how to trust TC during "intentional excessive throttle application" as you put it. I don't know each manufacturer's TC setup intimately, but I think your assertion is suspect.
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Old 02-02-2014, 06:02 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by PeterW View Post
Odds are though traction control would have just given you more time to appreciate the crash...Pete
I liked the way you put that. I chuckled.
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