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Old 02-23-2014, 10:52 PM   #1
Eddieb OP
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Lean-out / Lean-in?

Greetings hacksters

I was watching this video and at 4'35" they start talking about setting lean-out. The description they give for what lean-out does is:

"0 to 3 degrees of lean out (Bike leaning away from sidecar) will allow the rider to remain vertical on roads that are crowned to shed rain. The lean-out may vary in different regions."



This has prompted 2 questions:

A) Is the underlined portion a correct statement, and if so is this the main/only reason for lean-out?

Which leads on to:

B) If you are riding a lefty hack in a 'drive on the right' country (US etc), or a right hand side hack in a 'drive on the left' country (NZ, Aus, UK) should you actually have lean-in if the roads are well crowned?
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Old 02-23-2014, 11:11 PM   #2
Tarka
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When I took one of my Urals into Europe the camber effect was certainly noticeable while riding on the right with a left handed combo set up for driving on the left.
I could really feel as if I was leaning over to the right....and of course,I actually was,by the couple of degrees worth of lean-out on my Ural plus the road's camber angle.

I could have just wound in my tie rod adjusters to compensate but didn't bother.
Although noticeable,the leaning effect wasn't a particular problem or difficulty to deal with.
And it made chair flying out of the anticlockwise roundabouts a real hoot.
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Old 02-23-2014, 11:14 PM   #3
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I just build leannnnnnnnners... So my head don't hurt thinking about these things
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Old 02-24-2014, 11:25 PM   #4
Eddieb OP
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Hmm, I was hoping an authority would chip in with their wisdom.

I ask because a mate of mine has a right hand side chair Dnepr, which he drives on the left side of the road here in New Zealand.

His bike came set up with about 1/2 of an inch of lean out measured at the top of the rear tyre and our roads are generally quite heavily cambered as we can get fairly substantial rainfall throughout the year.

He rides solo 99% of the time and has commented that he always feels like he's leaning way over to the offside of the chair, so I am wondering if he changes the setup to lean in a little whether that would have any handling or safety issues.

Here he is with my much better half in the chair.



Also, once my mounts arrive from Germany I'll be setting my own chair up so I can use the info as well.
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Old 02-25-2014, 09:48 AM   #5
Tarka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddieb View Post
Hmm, I was hoping an authority would chip in with their wisdom.

I ask because a mate of mine has a right hand side chair Dnepr, which he drives on the left side of the road here in New Zealand.

His bike came set up with about 1/2 of an inch of lean out measured at the top of the rear tyre and our roads are generally quite heavily cambered as we can get fairly substantial rainfall throughout the year.

He rides solo 99% of the time and has commented that he always feels like he's leaning way over to the offside of the chair, so I am wondering if he changes the setup to lean in a little whether that would have any handling or safety issues.

Also, once my mounts arrive from Germany I'll be setting my own chair up so I can use the info as well.
So how about him or you just adjusting the thing and finding out how different or better it is then ?

Like I said above...I was on a short holiday and couldn't be arsed adjusting for a fairly insignificant matter.
But if I lived where my combo was the 'wrong way round' I'd certainly adjust it.
And I wouldn't spend days faffing quizzing,questioning and making expectations about it on Internet forums.
I'd just do the adjustment a bit at a time and see what improvements were made.

Go on,get the spanners out and have a go.
Become an "authority" of your own and inform us.
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Old 02-25-2014, 11:22 AM   #6
robtg
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Left hand rig in a right hand country, just set the bike straight up on level ground. I have built several left side outfits and they handled fine and tracked straight. Roads around here are not heavily crowned but if they were I would try a little lean in.
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Old 02-25-2014, 02:21 PM   #7
Eddieb OP
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Thanks Guys, I wasn't trying to infer anyone wasn't an authority, though re-reading it it could be interpreted that way ;) I was hoping one of the builders would pipe up.

I'd hate to make a setup change like that and find out the hard way it compromised the handling, stability, or safety of the rig in some way we hadn't realised beforehand, both of us are brand new to sidecars.
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Old 02-25-2014, 02:31 PM   #8
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Lean in is better than lean out. Lean out allows the car to come up easier.
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Old 02-25-2014, 10:15 PM   #9
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I did not read the thread here yet but the idea is that if it pulls right lean left and visa versa. pretty simple. Oh and after adjusting lean always recheck toe in as poorly positioned lower mounts can screw up toe in pretty bad when lean is adjsuted.
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Old 02-26-2014, 05:13 AM   #10
warkshop
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Just a quick note, from my experience. Both toe-in and lean-out contribute to allow the rig to go straight down the road without pull either way, neutral steering. If you diminish one of these like say taking away lean out, it is often necessary to add some toe-in to make up for the lose.
Personally since i don't like feeling like i'm going to fall off the side of the bike i tend to use a bit more toe-in,,,this allows a setup with only a touch of lean-out to work.

Lean in while recommended by the old time Police sidecar training tends to make the outfit harder to steer than it needs to be. I feel they used to preach lean in mainly for Noobs who had a fear of flying. Don't be afraid, just set it up so it handles the easiest, most neutral and comfortable, it can be done. This isn't rocket science though you can make it seem that way if you try.

BTW, i always carry all the tools needed to check or adjust my outfit with me. Got to keep this stuff tight!
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Old 02-26-2014, 06:55 AM   #11
RomaDakota
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MT11 or MT16?
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Old 02-26-2014, 11:18 AM   #12
MotoJ
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My rig is set with a couple degrees of lean-in, specifically to deal with lots of sharp 90 degree right hand turns I make driving in the city. I don't want the car lifting unless I really want it to.

Nothing scares the crap out of pedestrians more than seeing a flying chair with teeth painted on it roaring into the cross walk in front of them.
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Old 02-26-2014, 11:44 AM   #13
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Whilst acknowledging it's different stroke for different folks, the electric lean systems available in the USA are certainly a worthwhile addition when considering variable road camber. Personal experience of this system meant changes in camber were of little concern. The proverbial flick of the switch had our borrowed outfit always sitting well on the road.

Experiences with our left hand sidecars on European roads has varied. Early rides did take some getting used to ans sometimes difficult. However, a preference for the bikes on our last three outfits being effectively upright with no lean out seems to have provided an acceptable compromise and made riding home and abroad easier.
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