ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Hacks
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-31-2014, 08:48 PM   #691
boxertwin
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Mar 2003
Location: Idaho
Oddometer: 1,021
When Thing Two and I got back from CDA in 2012, Madam BT saw this one and said, "Who is that?"

boxertwin screwed with this post 03-31-2014 at 08:54 PM
boxertwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2014, 09:48 PM   #692
DRONE OP
Dog Chauffeur
 
DRONE's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: Tacoma, WA-ish
Oddometer: 3,430
Yeah, who is that girl sitting in your rig? Could it be that Thing Two was getting an early start? I guess you're never too young to learn that a guy really ups his potential when he's driving his Dad's hack!

__________________
WUMPA
DRONE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2014, 07:18 PM   #693
claude
Sidecar Jockey
 
Joined: Mar 2002
Location: Middleburg, Pa. (Snyder County)
Oddometer: 3,509
Cool little sidecar with a PRETTY WILD STEERING DAMPER SETUP.
__________________
Claude

Founder: Internet Sidecar Owners Klub at SCT
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/SCT/

President: C Stanley Motorsports Inc.
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/...rsandTrailers/

http://freedomsidecars.com/
claude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2014, 04:26 PM   #694
DRONE OP
Dog Chauffeur
 
DRONE's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: Tacoma, WA-ish
Oddometer: 3,430
Back on p. 33 of this thread I described the mechanical failure I had in Wyoming that caused me to wreck (11 months ago). That post led to a number of comments and observations and suggestions from various inmates. Well, today, I finally got around to disassembling the front end and cleaning up the parts to take a closer look. What I found was fairly interesting, but not being too schooled in these things, I'm not really sure what I'm seeing.

First, the ball joint. There was plenty of anti-seize still in the threads so at least I know that the assembly instructions were followed for that. I was expecting to find lots of metal from the fork bridge threads embedded in the ball joint threads, but I did not find any! Instead, I found that the steel threads of the ball joint were deformed and partially flatted. To make certain, I used a steel dental pick to dig into the threads but all I got was the anti-seize remains. The first 6 pics below show the six sides of the ball joint (in sequence) so you can see that ALL the threads are flatted all the way around, with one place worse than the rest--













I don't understand how the relatively softer metal of the fork bridge could deform the steel threads of the ball joint.

And by the way, the other end of the ball joint--the part that attaches to the swingarm and gets the red loctite treatment--that's still tightly mounted and undamaged.


So what does the DMC fork bridge look like? The threads are destroyed from the top down to 14mm deep. And the ball joint is 14mm deep, so the ball joint was seated all the way down at some point. But again, what I found interesting, is there was no loose metal or stripped threads. Instead, the threads appear to be mashed down or "flatted". But all the metal seems to be there.














I don't mean to start any new controversy here, but I am curious as to what sort of motion caused the threads on both pieces to get deformed like this. Rather than supposition (guessing), I'd really like to hear from folks who've seen this before and know what causes it. Especially if they are not from Minnesota.
DRONE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2014, 06:58 PM   #695
FR700
Heckler™©®
 
FR700's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2007
Location: Traveler
Oddometer: 6,249
The ball joint came loose. Once that occurred the threads are no longer locked together on one edge so they can now move up and down. Time, and the hammering that resulted, did the rest.

14 mm ain't a lot, rough rule of thumb is 1.5 x diameter.

Welcome to your vibration.


.
__________________
I'm diagonally parked in a parallel universe.
FR700 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2014, 07:02 PM   #696
davebig
Another Angry Hun !
 
davebig's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: Minnesota
Oddometer: 2,648
But wait lets here from MN anyway.
Why would there be anti seize on those threads ? Are you sure it's anti seize and not aluminum turned to powdery consistancy.
When BMW assembles them they use a grey loctite takes about 3-400 degrees to get it apart, perhaps the previous owner who may have installed the trail reducer partially cross threaded it backed it out and started over, in trying to assemble it correctly he added a bunch of anti seize to ease the threading .
If you didn't assemble it someone did you a great dis service, your only failure was in not finding it and believing the nonsense your youthful BMW tech told you that sometime things have to break to figure out what's wrong.That's as kind as I can be .
On the other hand intentionally misaligned fork tubes be it DMC or Freedom sidecars trail reducers is a bad idea ! I don't care how many either of them have sold and adding another joint to raise the front back up just doubles the chances for trouble.
__________________
Patience: A minor form of despair disguised as a virture.
Ambrose Bierce
davebig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2014, 08:27 PM   #697
DRONE OP
Dog Chauffeur
 
DRONE's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: Tacoma, WA-ish
Oddometer: 3,430
Quote:
Originally Posted by davebig View Post
But wait lets here from MN anyway.
Why would there be anti seize on those threads ? Are you sure it's anti seize and not aluminum turned to powdery consistancy.
When BMW assembles them they use a grey loctite takes about 3-400 degrees to get it apart, perhaps the previous owner who may have installed the trail reducer partially cross threaded it backed it out and started over, in trying to assemble it correctly he added a bunch of anti seize to ease the threading .
The BMW Service Manual actually calls for anti-seize on those threads. After all, it's steel on aluminum, with a lot of torque -- 230 Nm.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FR700 View Post
Welcome to your vibration.
I know that some of you guys think the ball joint is where my vibration was coming from. But when I finally get this bike rebuilt and back on the road (as a 2-wheeler) I'm totally expecting the vibration to still be there. I will be shocked if the vibration is gone. But then again, I've been shocked before. And wrong before!
DRONE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2014, 08:41 PM   #698
norton(kel)
vintage
 
norton(kel)'s Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Location: berthoud,colo.
Oddometer: 980
I thought you sent the bike to the breakers. Post 621 ?
norton(kel) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2014, 09:15 PM   #699
DRONE OP
Dog Chauffeur
 
DRONE's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: Tacoma, WA-ish
Oddometer: 3,430
Quote:
Originally Posted by norton(kel) View Post
I thought you sent the bike to the breakers. Post 621 ?
Insurance company did that. I bought it back for $1400 a couple of months later when it went up on auction.
DRONE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2014, 05:12 AM   #700
davebig
Another Angry Hun !
 
davebig's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: Minnesota
Oddometer: 2,648
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRONE View Post
The BMW Service Manual actually calls for anti-seize on those threads. After all, it's steel on aluminum, with a lot of torque -- 230 Nm.




I know that some of you guys think the ball joint is where my vibration was coming from. But when I finally get this bike rebuilt and back on the road (as a 2-wheeler) I'm totally expecting the vibration to still be there. I will be shocked if the vibration is gone. But then again, I've been shocked before. And wrong before!
Not unusual at all for an anti seize formula to have thread locking qualities, custom bicycle wheels often use such a product on spoke threads,after taking 8-10 ball joints apart while building trail reducers they seldom come apart without heat, then quite easily.Looking at the images again it wasn't cross threaded just loose.DB
__________________
Patience: A minor form of despair disguised as a virture.
Ambrose Bierce

davebig screwed with this post 07-05-2014 at 05:19 AM
davebig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2014, 06:45 AM   #701
rg, sw wa.
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Feb 2011
Location: Southwest Washington
Oddometer: 166
Ned, thanks for your followup observations, comments and pictures.

And, Dave and FR thanks for your insight and comments.

Ron,
rg, sw wa. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2014, 07:56 AM   #702
norton(kel)
vintage
 
norton(kel)'s Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Location: berthoud,colo.
Oddometer: 980
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRONE View Post
Insurance company did that. I bought it back for $1400 a couple of months later when it went up on auction.
norton(kel) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2014, 08:41 AM   #703
cluedog
Adventurer
 
Joined: Sep 2012
Oddometer: 51
Ned
Thanks for taking the time to post the pictures.
cluedog is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2014, 02:25 PM   #704
Abenteuerfahrer
Deaf on Wheels
 
Abenteuerfahrer's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Location: Leland, North Carolina, USA
Oddometer: 2,282
Quote:
Originally Posted by davebig View Post
But wait lets here from MN anyway.
Why would there be anti seize on those threads ? Are you sure it's anti seize and not aluminum turned to powdery consistancy.
When BMW assembles them they use a grey loctite takes about 3-400 degrees to get it apart, perhaps the previous owner who may have installed the trail reducer partially cross threaded it backed it out and started over, in trying to assemble it correctly he added a bunch of anti seize to ease the threading .
If you didn't assemble it someone did you a great dis service, your only failure was in not finding it and believing the nonsense your youthful BMW tech told you that sometime things have to break to figure out what's wrong.That's as kind as I can be .
On the other hand intentionally misaligned fork tubes be it DMC or Freedom sidecars trail reducers is a bad idea ! I don't care how many either of them have sold and adding another joint to raise the front back up just doubles the chances for trouble.
Thank you Drone for these excellent pictures.

I full agree with Davebig's commentary here . Davidovich is right that one needs to heat BMW's glue to a certain temp to loosen it. Done it before and did it the BMW way-(Hitze > Heat) . Forcing the ball joint off without heating would seriously damage the treads!

As for the elongated crooked ball joint, me thinks that the brute force inflicted on the joint on the way of separation caused the deformity .



cheers...

Abenteuerfahrer screwed with this post 07-05-2014 at 06:13 PM
Abenteuerfahrer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2014, 06:35 PM   #705
Melrone
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Sep 2009
Location: Cheese Head Country
Oddometer: 903
When I put my Dauntless reduced tree on. I didn't use the old balljoint I replaced it with a new one. So I knew everything was new. But by the way your look somebody really screwed up...The hardest part I had was touquing right. DiDn't like the way my front end dropped but sure like the way it steered.. When we put it together the way the manual said used the right type of Lock tite, Haven't had a problem... After your accident I checked my front end and everything was tight... In my opinion I'd check with the person who installed it and go after his ass...
Melrone is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 09:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014