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Old 04-24-2014, 06:29 AM   #376
crofrog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmq3rd View Post
I would go ahead and go off the road, slowing until I felt safe to get back on. Trying to instinctively get back on instantly is probably the wrong thing to do.

What sucks is if this happens on a corner with a guard rail or drop off. In those cases you're on your own.
That's one of the things they teach you at the race track. If you drop a wheel don't try to jerk the car or bike back onto the track.

With a car there's a good chance of a spin with a bike there's a good chance of a low side or high side (depending on if the front tire washes out before it gets onto the pavement or if it makes it onto the pavement and hooks up while the back is still in the grass)...

Not to mention that mentally you're just probably not in a good place to try to bring it back onto the track once you've already fucked up once, try to keep it to just 1 fuck up at a time.

Get the vehicle under control and then move back onto the track in a controlled manner if you weren't all the way off and are still at speed.

If you're well off the pace at this point find a corner worker and let them motion you back on when it's safe to do so, or use your own judgement in the real world.
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Old 04-24-2014, 08:53 AM   #377
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Originally Posted by Farmer Hank View Post
Any tar snakes, potholes, gravel, or other problems should be noticed with a quick glance - then immediately get your eyes up and looking down the road.
I've been working on this lately. I can keep my eyes focused on the vanishing point, mostly, but feel somewhat distracted by not directly seeing what my tires are about to hit in the immediate corner (sand etc).

Do most just cruise through with eyes up, or is the quick glance down a common thing? Both seem to have short comings.
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Old 04-24-2014, 11:21 AM   #378
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Originally Posted by BCJC View Post
I've been working on this lately. I can keep my eyes focused on the vanishing point, mostly, but feel somewhat distracted by not directly seeing what my tires are about to hit in the immediate corner (sand etc).

Do most just cruise through with eyes up, or is the quick glance down a common thing? Both seem to have short comings.
It may or may not be a common thing, but so is single vehicle crashes of motorcycles at corners...
Looking ahead should have the knowledge of obstacles, obstructions, and threats in your head so your 'unconscious reactions' can miss them. You need to be looking for the ones you are very shortly going to avoid-while-looking-for-the-next-ones...
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Old 04-25-2014, 04:58 AM   #379
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCJC View Post
I've been working on this lately. I can keep my eyes focused on the vanishing point, mostly, but feel somewhat distracted by not directly seeing what my tires are about to hit in the immediate corner (sand etc).

Do most just cruise through with eyes up, or is the quick glance down a common thing? Both seem to have short comings.
In all the years I've been riding with a ton of it on sport bikes at speed, I've NEVER wrecked on "sand or gravel" in the corners. Sure, I've hit that stuff on occasion, but aside from a little slipping, I always manage to stay up. I think most people use that as an excuse because they panicked and did something wrong, not because the bike actually lost it in the corner.
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Old 04-25-2014, 05:19 AM   #380
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Originally Posted by Albie View Post
In all the years I've been riding with a ton of it on sport bikes at speed, I've NEVER wrecked on "sand or gravel" in the corners. Sure, I've hit that stuff on occasion, but aside from a little slipping, I always manage to stay up. I think most people use that as an excuse because they panicked and did something wrong, not because the bike actually lost it in the corner.
+1


Every single vehicle motorcycle crash I've ever seen was the result of trying to avoid an "animal" that entered the road.
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Old 04-25-2014, 05:31 AM   #381
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This .gif stolen from the Killboy thread illustrates what happens with many bikes that "just wouldn't make the turn." Rider fails to look through the turn, panics, target fixates, stands bike up and rides it straight into the object he was trying so hard to avoid.

Either that or a squirrel we all missed in the pics ran out in front of him and he had to swerve to avoid it.
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Old 04-25-2014, 01:51 PM   #382
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Originally Posted by Paebr332 View Post
This .gif stolen from the Killboy thread illustrates what happens with many bikes that "just wouldn't make the turn." Rider fails to look through the turn, panics, target fixates, stands bike up and rides it straight into the object he was trying so hard to avoid.

Either that or a squirrel we all missed in the pics ran out in front of him and he had to swerve to avoid it.
Could be wrong (hard to tell from the .gif) but it looks like he tried to lean it further, touches down with a peg or something and is startled upright. Looks like he has way too much shit on the back and didn't adjust the suspension.
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Old 04-25-2014, 03:14 PM   #383
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paebr332 View Post
This .gif stolen from the Killboy thread illustrates what happens with many bikes that "just wouldn't make the turn." Rider fails to look through the turn, panics, target fixates, stands bike up and rides it straight into the object he was trying so hard to avoid.

Either that or a squirrel we all missed in the pics ran out in front of him and he had to swerve to avoid it.
I'd go with the squirrel.


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Old 04-28-2014, 11:41 AM   #384
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Even if he did touch down, he had PLENTY of room to ease up the lean if needed and still make the turn. Even if he was dragging parts he probably could have maintained the press and lean and made the turn. Looking at the camera didn't help, because he was already to far too the right in his lane to properly set up for the turn. Had be been nearer the centerline in his lane it would have given him more turn to work with.

I agree, he target fixated, first at the camera and then at the car, failed to look right, maintain a lean and stay on the throttle to make the turn. It's interesting that the Vette was already heading for the shoulder even before he was completely over the centerline. My guess is the Vette driver saw him coming bad WAY earlier than the bike rider saw the Vette.

Simply put, it was all his fault. But I wonder what his take is on the event?
Is he one of those, "I crashed the bike and there was nothing I coudl do about it?"

Or maybe, "I need to get a lot more training, because obviously I don't know how to handle a corner."
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Old 04-28-2014, 12:58 PM   #385
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Originally Posted by Andyvh1959 View Post
Even if he did touch down, he had PLENTY of room to ease up the lean if needed and still make the turn. Even if he was dragging parts he probably could have maintained the press and lean and made the turn. Looking at the camera didn't help, because he was already to far too the right in his lane to properly set up for the turn. Had be been nearer the centerline in his lane it would have given him more turn to work with.

I agree, he target fixated, first at the camera and then at the car, failed to look right, maintain a lean and stay on the throttle to make the turn. It's interesting that the Vette was already heading for the shoulder even before he was completely over the centerline. My guess is the Vette driver saw him coming bad WAY earlier than the bike rider saw the Vette.

Simply put, it was all his fault. But I wonder what his take is on the event?
Is he one of those, "I crashed the bike and there was nothing I coudl do about it?"

Or maybe, "I need to get a lot more training, because obviously I don't know how to handle a corner."

Nothing he could do about it?
Sheeit, he coulda laid er down.
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Old 04-28-2014, 07:12 PM   #386
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Originally Posted by BCJC View Post
I've been working on this lately. I can keep my eyes focused on the vanishing point, mostly, but feel somewhat distracted by not directly seeing what my tires are about to hit in the immediate corner (sand etc).

Do most just cruise through with eyes up, or is the quick glance down a common thing? Both seem to have short comings.
I can't imagine riding just looking into the distance. I ride with my eyes flicking constantly between as far down the road as I can, to the near, to the actual road just about to pass under my front tire. The latter especially so when I'm cranked over in a high speed turn. I want to anticipate how the bike is going to react to irregularities in the road before it happens, not just go shit that was a big pothole after its completely unsettled the bike, or wow that dip that launched me of the seat unexpectedly was kinda fun.

Actually the more I think about it the less I get the idea of focusing solely on the vanishing point. Your riding the classic motorcycle road of twistie sharp mountain bends. This will vary from you can't see around the next corner, to within a second perhaps you can completely see the next 2 if not 3 corners as the road winds back on itself. Who would ride around the next 2 corners focusing on the vanishing point 3 turns ahead. You need as much awareness as you can of where the road is going, the corner your in and the next if possible, and the road surface your about to take these corners on.

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Old 04-28-2014, 11:32 PM   #387
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I appear to be the opposite of JohnCW - in that I never look at the road that's just in front me - I doubt if I'd react well to anything suddenly appearing under my wheels anyway - so I tend to scan the road from about 50m (and behind via the mirrors) to the vanishing point. - just bear in mind that the road's vanishing point isn't necessarily where you actually want to be - unless it's a one way road .

It's been a long time since I've run wide in a corner, but I remember well what it was like and it was, for me, a valuable lesson(s) and one, I hope, that I learned - slow in, fast out. Look where you want to go. Don't fixate.

Don't forget the mistakes you made.
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Old 04-29-2014, 08:37 AM   #388
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At speed looking close is a waste. You're already there and what's done is done. If you see something it's something you should have seen already.
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Old 04-29-2014, 06:36 PM   #389
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At speed looking close is a waste. You're already there and what's done is done. If you see something it's something you should have seen already.
You don't stand the bike up for a split second in a turn to avoid that last second unseen big nasty pothole, or get the bike as vertical as possible over that unexpected wet patch or relatively small loose surface country road repair?

How do you know the corner your ripping into on that shaded country road in the high country is 'green' and you'd better go light on the throttle and keep the bike as upright as possible if your not constantly casting an eye on the road surface?

I sort of try to get as good a view of the road surface as this bloke.



Obviously the above picture is meant as a bit of a joke. But as I thought about this some more, GP riders constantly one after another will hit a corner ripple strip within an inch of each other. They are not getting this result by looking solely up the road. I'm doing largely exactly the same thing when riding fast though corners, constantly and closely monitoring my position to the 'ripple strip' which may be a 2 inch jagged drop-off to a dirt shoulder. How anyone can take a fast line through a corner getting as close to the 'ripple strip' as they safely can without closely monitoring the distance (which means glancing down out of the corner of your eye) and adjusting their line accordingly is lost on me.

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Old 04-29-2014, 09:07 PM   #390
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Peripheral vision my friend. Develop it and then trust it. It exists up and down as well as side to side. But always maintain you focus ahead.

And damn I wish I could do that.
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