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Old 06-10-2014, 05:33 AM   #1
Prodigium OP
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Modding a Honda CH-150

Advice from the battle scarred please. I have a 1987 Honda CH-150, the liquid cooled 4-stroke. I have a complete spare engine with a damaged cylinder wall. I go way back, and I remember in the early 1960s that Hondas produced 1hp per 10cc, so I figure that my 150 should be making 15hp. I know its not. I have a complete spare engine that I want to modify and drop in so Im looking for suggestions of what to do. I had a wrecked muffler and opened it up and found that all internal passages were as big as the head pipe, but the muffler exit was only 60% the size of the head pipe. I cut out the tiny exit and welded in an exit equal to the head pipe. It helped a bit. I have a mildly polished and ported head. I have what I need to make one of those paperclip exhausts. Im thinking a larger carb, better cam(but I still want a good steady idle), piston upgrade, ignition upgrade, and maybe a big bore kit. So, what do the folk suggest?
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Old 06-10-2014, 11:29 AM   #2
ohiotj
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As I understand, there is pretty much no performance market for the Elite 150, so it'll take some DIY work, or adapting of generic parts.

I hear rumors that some of the GY6 transmission parts may work (with or without mods), but have never seen it myself. I'm betting that you can get variator rollers of varying weights to tune the trans, and I don't know about the 150 variator, but I think the Elite 250 variator can be modified to allow the rollers to move further out, and get a slightly higher high gear.

As for the engine, I don't think anyone makes a performance grind for the cam, so you'll be limited a bit there. I've also never seen a big bore kit for one. You might be able to take the stock jug and have it rebored and honed, but I don't know how much material is there before you start hitting water jackets. For a piston, I wouldn't be surprised if you could do some parts cross-referencing, and maybe find a piston for another bike that will work, but might need some machining to get everything right. I would think at that point, it'd be easier to mill the head a smidge for more compression, and not worry about overboring it. Of course, then you need to make sure it doesn't negatively affect the cam timing too much.

Good luck, and I'd love to hear about any successes/failures you have in modifying it. They are already pretty quick for a 150cc scooter, but more speed is never a bad thing.
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Old 06-10-2014, 08:45 PM   #3
Wentwest
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Lot's of conversations over the years about these engines, but there's very little info to show that anything really makes a difference. These engines run at a pretty narrow range of rpm's because of the CVT drive system. If you search you can find an long and very detailed story by Craig Vetter (the fairing guy) trying to upgrade a Helix the get better mileage, more carrying capacity and higher top speed, and he put an enormous amount of creative work into the job, and came up with very little. His conclusion was that the design of the entire machine was so integrated that there was little to be gained by work on any particular area.

That said, you will get more performance with less weight, so lose a few pounds either on yourself or the scooter. Make sure the tires are aired up to 30 - 32 psi. And love it for what it is, a remarkable piece of 30 year old engineering.
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Old 06-11-2014, 06:42 AM   #4
Prodigium OP
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Details

Sounds like success will be in the details. Years ago I saw a piston for a 150 that looked like a F1 piston and weighed 2/3rds of the stock. Anyway, with the stock carb with a conical K&N and my de-restricted muffler I've repeatedly seen a gps 65mph but it's really screaming. I'd like to try gearing change, or a tire with a larger circumference if it will fit. One trick I did was to fill the variator holes with epoxy so it would go to a higher ratio faster. There is very little cylinder wall thickness for boring, so that's out.
So, from what I've been able to learn from here, and other sources, it looks like I'm going to go with larger carb, more open (and several pounds lighter) custom exhaust and ignition upgrade. I've been following developments in EFI and there are some bolt on, basically carb size EFIs. Give it power and fuel and then you can program it via USB hookup. Pricey though. For years I've been following ceramic thermal insulating coatings that I'm thinking of putting on the head and piston along with low friction coatings for the piston. Well, this will be fun, especially since I have a spare engine to do it all on. I'll do my best to document, with pics, what I do and post it with results. I'll be happy with a comfortable, 60mph cruise.
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Old 06-11-2014, 12:58 PM   #5
ohiotj
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Have you looked into Microsquirt yet? I am considering a Microsquirt setup, using a CBR250 throttle body/injector/harness for an EFI conversion on my Elite 250 engine.

As for gearing, I don't know whats out there, but if you are making enough power, I'd suggest changing the effective gear ratio by going with a slightly larger diameter rear tire. That should bring high speed RPMs down a bit, if you can't find any other way to upgear the transmission.

Have fun with the build!
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Old 06-11-2014, 03:04 PM   #6
Warney
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Many have tried and failed miserably...
The tiny intake and exhaust valves can only flow so much, regardless of the size of the carburetor and exhaust fitted. The architecture of the cylinder head does not allow for bigger valves and opening up the intake and exhaust ports any significant amount. The camshaft allows only modest lift and duration. The CDI has a rev limiter. Normal hot rodding procedures do not apply well to water-cooled Honda Scooter engines.
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Old 06-11-2014, 08:10 PM   #7
fullmetalscooter
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second the fact I ve read again and again the same type of post for elite 80 , 110 , 125 and 150. Unless you want to spend cash to try to get some more out of it by doing shit other haven't thought of it , i feel it's a waisted time. Lots of tried but not much ever came of it. Unless you want to find a china 250 cc scooter and stuff that engine into a elite by cutting the 250 rear sub frame and crafting it onto the 150 frame. Then again 1000 to 1500 gets you 250cc.

The only way to get more speed , mpg is Slip streaming it. Look up crag vetter freedom scooter for more ideas. 60 chapter online about slip streaming a helix . That got 80 mpg and goes 90 mph. Everyone whom gone that path go faster and longer. What he used never the end was a simple to make frame work. Wax paper that almost like 2 L milk. ( cheap long lasting ) Banana tacks to hold it together. After getting it all right he then made a metal skin riveted together . About the same thing aircraft are made of.
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Old 06-12-2014, 09:55 AM   #8
Wentwest
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I have to say you should spend your money on something else.

The idea of a bigger tire is limited by the length of the belt drive box, and that's a portion of the left crankcase casting.

You can bolt a CH250 engine into the 150 frame. It's not easy, but others have done it and you can search the internet and find a build thread. That's probably the best and maybe only way to boost performance.
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Old 06-12-2014, 10:13 AM   #9
ohiotj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wentwest View Post
You can bolt a CH250 engine into the 150 frame. It's not easy, but others have done it and you can search the internet and find a build thread. That's probably the best and maybe only way to boost performance.
I did that, only with an Elite E frame. It was a bit more than a bolt in, but as I understand, the engine mounts on the 150 and 250 are very similar, and having merged the wiring harnesses, I will say Honda does a good job of being consistent with their wiring colors. So, good point, an Elite 250 engine in a 150 frame could be fun.
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Old 06-12-2014, 01:45 PM   #10
herman7196
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If I were going to mod my 87 ch150, I'd buy a ch250 engine and bolt it in. I've read a few times that it's basically a bolt in operation. I wouldn't waste too much time & money trying to get a few extra MPH out of the stock engine.
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Old 06-12-2014, 02:12 PM   #11
MODNROD
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CH250 motor.
It needs what, a bit of welding, a few bolt-length figuring-out things, a little clearance here and there..........
........and is still only just over HALF the HP of a stock CRF230 motor.
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Old 06-12-2014, 06:30 PM   #12
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Nitrous oxide is cheap and does wonders and when not needed the engine performs as stock. We mounted a kit just for laughs on a cheap Chinese scooter and it made a hell of a difference at least until it blew the head gasket but those motors are timebombs anyway. I doubt it would harm a Honda motor if set up properly.
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Old 06-13-2014, 07:28 AM   #13
herman7196
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rather than going through the trouble of trying to make a scooter faster why not just buy a faster scooter? It'd be a lot more simple and probably cheaper in the long run.
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Old 06-13-2014, 09:12 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herman7196 View Post
rather than going through the trouble of trying to make a scooter faster why not just buy a faster scooter? It'd be a lot more simple and probably cheaper in the long run.
Where's your sense of adventure. Anybody can buy a faster scooter but only a select chosen few can stomach the pain and agony of wasted time and money trying to polish a turd.
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Old 06-13-2014, 10:47 AM   #15
herman7196
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Laugh

Quote:
Originally Posted by baloneyskin daddy View Post
Where's your sense of adventure. Anybody can buy a faster scooter but only a select chosen few can stomach the pain and agony of wasted time and money trying to polish a turd.

LOL I am 47 years old and have tried to polish many turds in my time. Rarely, if ever did it work out as I had hoped or planned.

I have to laugh when I see folks spending $5-10K and more trying to get 100 HP out of a Harley. They're so bent on owning a Harley that they miss the fact that there are already many superior sport and touring motorcycles available that produce well over 100hp stock. I just dont get the whole Harley mystique.
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