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Old 06-11-2014, 11:08 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by CaptnJim View Post
There is a reason the influx of cheap-ass Chinese scooters has collapsed while the quality manufacturers continue to sell. Parts and support that are non-existent = disappointed buyers.
Just an observation . . store-only brand China scooters appear to dominate the failures, while the online offerings seem to prevail. TaoTao and DongFang have USA warehousing. Parts vendors such as ScrappyDog and PartsForScooters seem to be thriving.

Valley Scooters offers both Linhai and Znen.
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Old 06-11-2014, 12:41 PM   #167
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One can't make a statement "china scooter sales have crashed" when there is no official count on the Internet sales of said scoots. There are a ton of them in the US and if you look at the china scoot forums people are still buying drop shipped scoots. Most college campuses are full of them.

The "quality Japanese" manufactures sell scooters at the same pace here as it has for years, drip, drip, drip. Honda, yamaha and suzuki sell so few scooters here that its hard to find dealers that actually have them in stock in any kind of numbers.

The local suzuki dealer was shocked to learn that the Burgman now comes as a 200 also.........

Fact is we may love scooters but they are an afterthought in the US motorcycle market.

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Old 06-11-2014, 09:25 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by Cat0020 View Post
Sold or made?

and how many Cubs do you still see on the road being used?

I've lived in places where the only available motorized transport is a cheap Chinese scooter.. even served as ambulance for the whole village.

You want to talk about "guy who knows people buy based on their own needs, wants, and finances.".. I know some of them and those that use cheap Chinese scooters outnumber Honda scooters by significant margin.
Enjoy your Chinese scoot. I've lived in places where Harleys outnumber the cheap Chinese scoots (familiar with Sturgis?), but that doesn't make cheap Chinese scooters any better or worse. We probably won't be able to agree to disagree, but your opinion of cheap Chinese scooters won't change my opinion... like discussing politics or "Mary Ann or Ginger." For a guy who is as worldly as yourself, you come across as though your opinion is the only one that counts.

Your "point of having a scooter" is your opinion. Others here, myself included, have a different opinion. And that was my point: that your point isn't the only one that counts. You know nothing about me, my experience, or why I ride. Apparently I touched a nerve by suggesting that anyone but you should be entitled to an opinion... I don't go out of my way to start an argument, and have no intent of carrying on one with you. Really, I hope you enjoy whatever you ride. Cheap as you want.

I don't buy a scooter or anything else based on: how cheap can it be made. That is a choice. I also don't give a rat's ass about how many of any product is purchased in this country or any other. I make buying decisions based on what will work best for my usage.

If someone chooses to go through life buying the cheapest of any product they can find, that, too, is a choice. Not a decision that affects anyone else.

Ask a mechanic if they would prefer to use the cheapest tool made, or one that is best suited to do the job. Cheap has its place... but it isn't the only determining factor for SOME of us. Yap all you want about my choice, but it isn't going to change my mind. And please know that I would never try to convince you not to cheap-out on your choices. Your money, your life, your choice.

Oh, and...
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Old 06-12-2014, 02:39 AM   #169
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Now it's starting to sound like one of those "china scoot" forums around here....

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"We live in a world designed for stupid and we have lawyers to help them"
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Old 06-12-2014, 04:49 AM   #170
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Originally Posted by Cat0020 View Post
The whole point of having a scooter is to have it as cheap as possible; otherwise, I would just get a normal motorcycle.
You got the reaction because you should have phrased it "My" whole point of having...blah blah blah.

I too have had a ton of motorcycles over the years, and wanted more from my next ride than a standard bike can give. Got a Honda scooter, and didn't care about the price. Yea, yea, the whole world, etc. You have to consider the target audience of this thread. Not saying your argument isn't valid, it just doesn't ring true to a lot of us that aren't out to save the starving masses; I just want a kick-ass scooter that doesn't need to tow a trailer full of tools, or a mechanic to come along when I am out in the boonies and need the bike to start.

Got what "I" wanted- hope you have what you wanted as well. Life is short. Rides on a bike shouldn't be.


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Old 06-12-2014, 05:20 AM   #171
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Originally Posted by MichRocks View Post
Life is short. Rides on a bike shouldn't be.
That is a GREAT quote.
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Old 06-12-2014, 07:25 AM   #172
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Too bad I wasn't stating an opinion, just simple truth.

You can have you opinions, however far from truth they may be.. just don't expect your opinion to be valid when it's not true.
Mankind is doomed & Physics do not lie
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Old 06-12-2014, 04:23 PM   #173
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I certainly didn't buy a bmw scooter because it was the cheapest.
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Old 06-12-2014, 07:14 PM   #174
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The OP was asking about the general quality of Chinese scoots. Admittedly, at the time of his original question, he claimed no expertise about Chinese scooters, but did make a statement about them being "shitty". Apparently he seemed to be seeking confirmation of the truth of his statement. It also seems now (according to his signature line) That he now owns a couple Harleys along with a handful of other Japanese bikes.
(guess he found the answers to his satisfaction)

Of course such a hot button issue as Chinese scooters on forums where the audience is predominately western is bound to draw in people and then inevitably flare up with harsh words and arguments. Cheap and reliable are pretty subjective concepts, especially if one has little knowledge of other things to draw comparisons to. Many of the Chinese scooter riders probably don't have much knowledge or experience of scooters built outside of their country and would be more likely to only have opinions about their native brands.

Nevertheless, The OP was probably not considering the the world population when he made his question else he might have stated so at the time. He understood that they were not the quality of Japanese bikes but still wondered if they could "do the job". I seemed to read that in the main they are not reliable in the sense that bikes built outside of China have. But that they are at least tolerable if you know how to properly feed and care for them. That is fine for those that know... For those that don't know, they are crap.

Personally, I don't mind paying a little bit more for a bike I don't have to treat with kid gloves and ride it like it will break if it ever gets too close to its operational limits and have to "FIX it" and swap parts out when it is NEW and BEFORE it even breaks. That is just utterly ridiculous to need to do that with a new bike. It is no wonder that Chinese bikes get such a bad rap.

So my answer to the OP is that If you are willing to tolerate a lower cost bike that requires more attention and care when riding, then go for it. But if you don't know or don't want do what it takes to keep a Chinese bike working and able to be ridden, then stay away from the Chinese bikes and maybe find a good used Japanese bike instead.
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Old 06-14-2014, 01:12 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by Ken11 View Post
Wo, those things really sound like more trouble than they are worth to me. I am so glad I posted this, fake frekin ABS? Who the hell are the idiots behind that? That could seriously kill someone! That is so dangerous to have shitty brakes. Think about that, what is more important. Saving $1,000 or saving your own life? Your choice.

I think that some of the higher end chinese companies make great scoots, but the prices on those are up with the other known brands. I think that he'll go with a Kymco or a SYM scooter based on the reviews that we have been reading in the past 2 days or so.

As an auto mechanic, I will tell you that ABS is usually a very good, reliable braking system. It does take away a tiny little bit of your braking power, but it works very well. Some cars also only have it in the rear or front, while many have both. They all work well. Good Brakes are a must. I have been hearing that even upon eliminating the dangerous fake ABS, many guys have said the brakes are shitty and the brake pads wear out quick. But jeez, taking half the Hydraulic disk brake fluid and squirting it in a bottle and some into the brake, how much more retarded can you get?

Overall, sure some of these scoots will serve you guys fine, but he doesn't want to take any chances.
I know there are good products made in China, but they aren't cheap. I bought an expensive Chinese brand watch in the 'Friendship' store in Beijing 20 years ago and it still works perfectly. They send the cheap stuff here because they know that anything that is cheap will sell here to somebody regardless of quality. If they put fake brakes on a motorcycle there clearly is no concern for quality; for the end consumer. Make it look good, get the cash, the stupid consumer won't know the difference.

Maybe you can get by with less than good brakes where you live. But what about the wheel bearings? Are they equally good? Did they even bother to put grease in them? The idea of putting my life and welfare at risk at 50 mph with such a slipshod product where there is no pride and every possible corner has been cut, gives me the horrors.

I can't understand why otherwise intelligent people would be willing to risk their lives like that. I'd rather walk.
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Old 06-14-2014, 01:47 PM   #176
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In 2005 I had a experience with Chinese scooters: Jianling 50 cc 4 stroke. In one word they were terrible. And when I mean terrible I mean not a single one passed 3000 kms without any mechanical failure and they were dead before 3.000 kms. I said to myself that I will never ride anything Chinese again.
That was true until 2013 when I bought a neco Abruzzi (a retro scooter clone of the 1958 vespa with a gy6 engine) because I loved the classic vespa and wanted something economical to use as daily driver. In 1 year I runned almost 19.000 kms on it, apart from 1 rear tire, 1 cvt belt and 1 voltage variator it was problems free, never let me stranded. The main problem was the slow speed because it was only 50 cc. with lots of plastics and wind resistance. So I sold it and now own the same model with 125 cc. with 2.000 kms in 6 weeks.
The problem with Chinese scooters is that many people chooses to buy from the bottom shelf were the quality is zero. They buy a no brand scooter from a shady seller that disappears after the payment with no stock of parts to assist.
To be honest I must confess that keep the scooter inside the garage at night, change the oil myself every 1.000 kms, when cold I don’t rev it up. I try to take good care of it
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