Countersteering confusion : (

When I pull I feel like I am moving a sail.

The best way I have found to show someone who rides, but doesn`t get it, is to learn while riding in a straight line in a safe place without traffic and plenty of room to play.

Take one hand off the bar (cover the grip, but not touch it) and very gently push or pull with the other hand. I will explain how to expect it to behave, and reinforce to be slow and smooth with the pressure, increasing the slight weave that results as it becomes more comfortable. Then put the other hand back and keep practicing. I tell them to just let the bike stand itself up if it gets too weird too fast, and then use less pressure, just pushing slightly harder than only thinking about it.

This helps eliminate the"lock up" effect some get when using both hands. Once they get it by doing a little weaving, progressing to curves is easy.

i was told some thing close to that.

i was told to ride one handed and then push down on the bar and the bike will move . ie if you push the right bar down towards the ground the bike will go right. and if you push the left bar towards the ground if will go left simple.

Push the bar forward, not down towards the ground. But otherwise, yes, simple.

if the bars is pushed down they will pivet and it will turn easy. it means if you lean your body to the left and pushed the left bar down at the same it will turn left quick and easy.

Ok I got as far as page 12 and got a headache. I thought I was in the WTF thread

My question is if I am in a paved corner going to the right, I am leaned over as far as I can, my rear tire is not sliding, but i am going to fast and will cross the center line which I do not want to do.
Do I push with my right hand and pull with my left hand causing my front tire to start turning to the left and keep looking to were I want to go? Or just say fuck it and bail

If your tires aren't sliding, then you're not leaned over as far as you can.

You can have all sorts of hard parts on the ground before the tyres start sliding. You are 100% on having a go though. Nothing to lose by trying, deverything to lose by bailing

I had the luggage on the ground in this pic....




... But moving my torso left after the pic was snapped allowed me to maintain my line and pick the bag up off the ground.

Hang off the inside more.

A lot more.

Some of you may be aware of Google's research into automonous vehicles. I recently read a very interesting and informative article in The New Yorker about the beginnings of that research and their progress.

Article here: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2013/11/25/131125fa_fact_bilger?currentPage=all

In relation to this counter steering thread, I recently recalled the following paraphraph from that article:

"Finally, a year into the project, a Russian engineer named Alex Krasnov cracked the code. They’d thought that stability was a complex, nonlinear problem, but it turned out to be fairly simple. When the bike tipped to one side, Krasnov had it steer ever so slightly in the same direction. This created centrifugal acceleration that pulled the bike upright again. By doing this over and over, tracing tiny S-curves as it went, the motorcycle could hold to a straight line. On the video clip from that day, the bike wobbles a little at first, like a baby giraffe finding its legs, then suddenly, confidently circles the field—as if guided by an invisible hand. They called it the Ghost Rider."

This sentence in particular: "When the bike tipped to one side, Krasnov had it steer ever so slightly in the same direction."

My attempt at rephrasing: If a leaning bike steers in in the direction of the lean, it stands up. To me the inverse would then be true, if a leaning bike steers in the opposite direction of the lean (counter steer), it leans further.

I would suggest that this is engineering evidence of the effect of counter steering.

Thanks, LoachDriver.

Forgive me if somebody said this in the 7 pages but there is so much confusion about this.

Countersteering does not make the bike turn! Countersteering makes the bike fall or lean which is required for the bike to turn at speed unless you have a side car

Once the bike is leaning you actually turn the bars in the direction of the turn, which also stops the bike from falling over completely.

At high speed the lean is great but the turn is small. In fact at very high speed even the largest radius turn requires max lean. With exception of racing conditions traction will give up before reaching this limit.

At lower speed and sharp turns you can achieve full steering lock at full lean.

At low speed, slight turn you can use body position instead of lean to balance.

Also, you can slide the rear out so power at the back tire will push you around the corner. Ussually done on low traction surfaces but low traction will also get the front tire sliding too.

Did we ever get to the bottom of this?

Yes, stand up to lower the center of gravity.

No, staying on top of the thing is the goal

And when you sit down again the earth's axis is off by another 0.1 degrees.

We all gave up, sold our bikes, and found less mysterious hobbies

No, not yet. Check back sometime in the next year and a half or 1,164 posts.


For some reason, this thread reminds me of trench warfare in WWI. The line never really moves, yet the casualties keep accumulating.

Might as well sell them since apparently they never ride them. 30 seconds in and countersteering looses any hint of mystery it may have held.