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Old 01-14-2007, 11:49 AM   #1
dfc OP
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Question Shaft Seal Quandry

Ok, so as I pull off the final drive I find a quantity of oil in the swingarm.
Damn I say, well I'm going to be ripping into the Gearbox again this year to replace a bearing I should have last time I had it apart (dont ask) and I can replace the shaft seal. Then I realize I actually have that seal from a previous order to MaxBMW, but I never installed it, good for me right?
Well, after I pull off the cover, and unwrap the new seal (still in package) I realize its not even close to the one installed. I had figured the existing one was not a BMW replacement, but heres the kicker, The new one, with the proper # doesnt look like it will work. So anybody got one of these around to compare?
Part# is 12312338514
# on seal is 1 338 514
I wonder if I got a bad part or what?

see pics,green is one I had in, black is new one, note metal inner that does NOT fit the shaft.
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Old 01-14-2007, 11:50 AM   #2
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the old one

front side also
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Old 01-14-2007, 01:25 PM   #3
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Seals are specified by inside and outside diameter and thickness. If they are the same then it's just different materials. The green one looks like viton which is a better, longer lasting, more expensive material than the nitrile that many seals are made out of. Just a guess. JT
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Old 01-14-2007, 02:54 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfc
Damn I say, well I'm going to be ripping into the Gearbox again this year to replace a bearing I should have last time I had it apart (dont ask) and I can replace the shaft seal.
Are you sure that the shaft seal is defective? I mean ... GS and R models have that small "triangle" at the gearbox exit ... right above the shaft seal ... which needs to be plugged with silicone. If that is not there, she will pump about 0.5 liter per 1000 km from the gearbox into the shaft drive.

(... presuming you ride a paralever airhead, which is something you did not say )

Second thing: The seals for paralever and "other airheads" have the same dimension, but those on the paralver models have a different part number since they are to be installed "the other way round".
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Old 01-14-2007, 03:40 PM   #5
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Ug, thought you'd look at the profile,'92 R100GSPD BTW so paralever, the inner bearing of the new one is metal, so it wouldnt seal even if it fit the shaft, er, actually its the output flange on which it seats.

And thank you Joerg, I went back and looked for the triangle "notch " you mentioned, and sure enought it was there, About 1mm deep, never noticed it with the seal in. I'm not sure if it was siliconed or not, no residue left. I will get a new seal on order, and hopefully get some $$ back for the old one. And remember to add a little silicone to the hole.

I was wondering if someone had one around for comparison mainly.

I may also check the local bearing/seal shop for another as well, looks to be a 40X70X11
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Old 01-14-2007, 06:44 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joerg
Are you sure that the shaft seal is defective? I mean ... GS and R models have that small "triangle" at the gearbox exit ... right above the shaft seal ... which needs to be plugged with silicone. If that is not there, she will pump about 0.5 liter per 1000 km from the gearbox into the shaft drive.
You just saved me a ton of money. I had pulled the transmission and found oil everywhere. I read this about 5 mins ago and went out to look. Triangle. Thanks.

I've read on this site (IIRC) some guys overfill slightly and allow the overflow to lube the splines. Opinion?
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Old 01-14-2007, 07:06 PM   #7
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According to realoem. com the part # is 23121338514 for the output shaft seal. That lip isn't metal, it's the fancy seal stuff. The rear main seal on all the boxers r259 included is the same.
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Old 01-14-2007, 09:24 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfc
I may also check the local bearing/seal shop for another as well, looks to be a 40X70X11
The gearbox revision page on my website says:
Shaft seal output shaft/housing (Paralever models) ..... 23 12 1 338 514 ..... 70x40x7
Shaft seal output shaft/housing ("old" swingarm models) ..... 23 12 1 232 681 ..... 66.3x40x7

I took these numbers from the ETK.
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Joerg screwed with this post 01-14-2007 at 09:30 PM
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Old 01-14-2007, 09:29 PM   #9
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Eek No!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyB
You just saved me a ton of money.
... oh, just in case that "a ton" is too much to handle, I can give you my bank account number

Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyB
I've read on this site (IIRC) some guys overfill slightly and allow the overflow to lube the splines. Opinion?
That is a clear "no-no" for all paralever models. Their shaft bearings have a permanent grease fill, which would be washed out by the oil.



(This being said ... the first pictures of the paralever GS, including the cover photo of the rider's manual and the drawings in the ETK, still show a pair of oil fill/drain plugs at the paralever. Probably BMW thought of "something filled with oil" first ;-))
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Joerg screwed with this post 01-14-2007 at 09:32 PM Reason: added info
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Old 01-15-2007, 11:31 AM   #10
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PO set my GS up for Tierra del Fuego and then sold it. It has rebuildable/greaseable driveshaft (6mm zerks) which I grease every 5K or sooner, along with a bunch of other useful mods. Another ton of money saved. (Mine all mine.) That was a deal.

Thanks for the feedback. Still learning.
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Old 01-16-2007, 10:05 AM   #11
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The gearbox seal on my first paralever went and I ordered up the correct seal prior to stripdown. When I dismantled it I found that at somw point in its life someone had changed the gearbox for a pre para one. The seals are of different sizes and types. The early one having a garter spring and the later a lip which is to be preformed over a mandrel..the output flange....for several hours.
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Old 01-16-2007, 02:14 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Straypuss
The gearbox seal on my first paralever went and I ordered up the correct seal prior to stripdown. When I dismantled it I found that at somw point in its life someone had changed the gearbox for a pre para one. The seals are of different sizes and types. The early one having a garter spring and the later a lip which is to be preformed over a mandrel..the output flange....for several hours.

That may be what is happening to me, after closer inspection the inside flange does appear to be flexible, but very stiff. I talked to Max BMW (where I bought the part) and the one they have in stock sounds like the one I have. I have no special instructions for this one, its also marked "inside" on it on the side I would think goes out. I am still trying to find one local like the old (green) one,it has a spring as you describe, and looks like it would seal better. and BTW, yes it is 7mm thick, my mistake. Did you use the new one?, and do tell of the "preform", can I do this on the output flange?
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Old 01-16-2007, 03:01 PM   #13
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The outside diameters of the two types are different
the pre form wont fit in the older box...

Haynes:On installation the teflon seal lip must be shaped, for two hours, to prevent damage by speedo drive worm. use special tool blah ...etc. Use output flange but wrap thin layer of tape over it first. Press seal fully onto flange shoulder.The seal is fitted with open side inwards. Seal will bed in more rapidly if installed dry. Manufacturer recommends filling V shape vent with sealer and drilling 1mm hole through sealant. Later models have been reduced in size during production.

I wrecked my preform type trying to get it to fit on the end casing and bought a garter spring type at my local bearing shop.
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Old 01-16-2007, 03:49 PM   #14
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You have the correct seal. It got updated at some point (no need to look it up; I know it's the right one because I install them all the time including one today). The side marked "inside" goes on the inside. I install them dry and slightly preform them with my fingers to help the flange slide in, but it's probably not necessary. You need to seal up the triangle with some silicone sealant or equiv.
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Old 01-16-2007, 06:50 PM   #15
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Thumb

Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonLargiader
You have the correct seal. It got updated at some point (no need to look it up; I know it's the right one because I install them all the time including one today). The side marked "inside" goes on the inside. I install them dry and slightly preform them with my fingers to help the flange slide in, but it's probably not necessary. You need to seal up the triangle with some silicone sealant or equiv.

I just received an email with a PDF file of the service bulletin from Drew at Max BMW,I talked to him earlier today about it. Apparently this one is Teflon and works better, at least to BMW. Kudos to Max BMW and Drew, they follow up on a part they sold months ago to help a customer who had questions.



Thanks also to Joerg and Anton and all who have helped.

Evertime I think I got this bike figgered, well you know.........
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