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Old 05-29-2008, 03:25 AM   #1
strathbran steve OP
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Talking just so as everyone knows where to look converting a 1wd Dnepr to 2wd or 3wd thread

Looking for any pictures, plans or experiences of converting a LH chair Dnepr/Ural to 2wd or 3wd - so its all in one place
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Old 05-29-2008, 03:28 AM   #2
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my on the back of an envelope plan

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Old 05-30-2008, 04:11 AM   #3
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any body got any more detail of this bike?


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1967 BSA B40 GB trials
1962 BSA B40
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1933 Indian 74" Chief project

strathbran steve screwed with this post 06-01-2008 at 02:22 PM
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Old 06-01-2008, 05:39 AM   #4
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Looks like you might be the first. BTW, I don't get squat but this thread clicking on your links.


Any particular reason you want the chair on the left (other than that's where all you funny drivers in the isles generally put them)? I had a left-hand chair on my Comet and damn near killed myself in a curve because my practice was all on right-hand chairs. Hmmm, I may have answered my own question there...)
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Old 06-01-2008, 11:14 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strathbran steve
my on the back of an envelope plan
That strikes me as a mechanical monster. Why not just have an on-demand, engaging, two-stroke motor on the hack wheel?
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Old 06-01-2008, 02:32 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John™
Looks like you might be the first. BTW, I don't get squat but this thread clicking on your links.


Any particular reason you want the chair on the left (other than that's where all you funny drivers in the isles generally put them)? I had a left-hand chair on my Comet and damn near killed myself in a curve because my practice was all on right-hand chairs. Hmmm, I may have answered my own question there...)
fixed the link

since the early 1980's RH chairs have been illegal in the UK (and Australia) so we cant (legally) get a 2wd Ural, although after having a long chat with a UK importer the other day, who is running a 2wd RH chair outfit in the UK I'm thinking of just going for it - too much cost/engineering to convert my elderly Dnepr to 2wd I could buy all the bits via ebay, the imorter fella offered me a LH converted 2wd chassis - but at the best part of £1000 ($2000) to convert a £500 (£1000) outfit, I'd rather go for a new Ural 750 Gear Up 2wd and take my chances
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1996 Gas Gas 125 trials
1987 Dnepr Cossack 650cc Hack
1969 Triumph Trophy/Bonneville Bobber
1967 BSA B40 GB trials
1962 BSA B40
1957 Norton Model 77 Scrambler
1937 Indian 57" Sport Scout Stroker special
1933 Indian 74" Chief project
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Old 06-01-2008, 02:33 PM   #7
strathbran steve OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bozola
That strikes me as a mechanical monster. Why not just have an on-demand, engaging, two-stroke motor on the hack wheel?
not much different from the Ural design then
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1987 Dnepr Cossack 650cc Hack
1969 Triumph Trophy/Bonneville Bobber
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1962 BSA B40
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Old 06-01-2008, 05:45 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strathbran steve
any body got any more detail of this bike?

Garry (Oppozit) asked me to reply about this set-up. Unfortunately my reply seems to have disappeared into the aether so I'll re-write it tomorrow.
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Old 06-01-2008, 06:07 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strathbran steve
fixed the link

since the early 1980's RH chairs have been illegal in the UK (and Australia) so we cant (legally) get a 2wd Ural, although after having a long chat with a UK importer the other day, who is running a 2wd RH chair outfit in the UK I'm thinking of just going for it - too much cost/engineering to convert my elderly Dnepr to 2wd I could buy all the bits via ebay, the imorter fella offered me a LH converted 2wd chassis - but at the best part of £1000 ($2000) to convert a £500 (£1000) outfit, I'd rather go for a new Ural 750 Gear Up 2wd and take my chances
The ban on RH chairs in Australia depends on the State in which the vehicle is registered. QLD and perhaps W.A. allow motorcycles with a RH chair under the LHD provisions of historical vehicle registration. TAS will allow it only for Lend-Lease vehicles. N.T. has the least restrictions on LHD vehicles, but conversely the strictest application of ADRs. NSW has had a ban on RH sidecars since 1928. ACT, VIC and S.A. all seem to have long standing bans and no desire to regard a motorcycle as a "handed" vehicle so no access to LHD provisions.

I don't know about the U.K. but registering the bike as a solo and then putting the RH chair on means that your registration and insurance is invalid. In NSW you end up being charged for unregistered, uninsured, plates to deceive, and avoiding State tax (OSR). And since the vehicle code changes from CYC to CYS, it's pretty easy for the cops to know that you're pulling a swifty.

The easiest vehicles to convert to sidecar drive with a LH chair are any of the single-sided swingarm BMWs. Have a look at the Mobec arrangement and just swap sides.
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Old 06-02-2008, 06:47 AM   #10
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If you look at the majority of Japanese machinery (excluding 'wings and CX models) you'll notice a lefthand mounted shaft. Howabout putting in a drive-takeoff on the hypoid casing on one of those?



But if its Russian (or even Chinese) iron for the LH sidecar drive - I'd support that idea illustrated by the thread author.

http://abacus-es.net/share/imgfetch/...ansmission.jpg

Just off the rear of the gearbox - run a pulley (or CVT version) out to the left. Position a positive clutch/declutch device there and run a short shaft to the rear. From this use a rightangle (hypoid) transfer case to drive a double-ended universal-coupled shaft to power the sidecar wheel.

Or, just use a second (trailbike) engine with swingarm.


Rotohak twin turbo rotary engine powered outfit.

Another way is to fit a transaxle (VW, Mazda Bongo 1000, Fiat 850 Sports, Hillman Imp) at the rear and run a rear engine. There is an outfit in europe, the Bob Rotohak creation with a Mazda Cosmo twin-rotary (twin turbo intercooled) powerplant hidden under the bodywork!


Alternately, convert that Ural to a twin-track drive! Run the cross-shaft from the rearmost track sprocket.
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vortexau screwed with this post 06-02-2008 at 07:10 AM
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Old 06-02-2008, 07:43 AM   #11
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During WWII

Just in case anyone wonders if any LS 2WD outfits were ever built, Norton fielded their 600cc 'Big-4' to the British and Australian armies during WWII. I have no knowledge of the sidecar drive system.


(Norton 'Big 4' solo)

Then, Sunbeam built a prototype 2WD outfit using the same sidecar and running a Matchless 1000cc MX2 V-twin powerplant. It had heavy teledraulic forks & a transfer box for rear & sidecar drive plus reverse.
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Old 06-07-2008, 05:47 PM   #12
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Thumb one for steve and one for vortex

gday all, steve , the three wheel drive ideais intriguing but may involve differential gears with a hell of a lot of complex engineering. have you considered some sort of transfer box attached to the rear of the main gear box, with a dog clutch to engage drive to the sidecar when required? there appears to be something along those lines featured in the picture of the three wheel drive rhs outfit that you posted. vortex, there is a site run by a dutch norton big 4 enthusiast that features pictures of the sidecars in action and a couple of fairly clear pics of the bare sidecar frame and drive arrangement.if you search "norton big 4" it should come up. good luck
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Old 06-08-2008, 06:06 PM   #13
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http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Mo...p-69289611.htm

Some pics of a Norton Big 4 2WD sidecar. Won't be up for long some grab 'em quick. Might give you som ideas.
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Old 06-10-2008, 10:46 AM   #14
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When the subject of two-wheel drive comes up, its surprising no americans have yet mentioned the Rokon.

Its a bike with both front & rear drive and . . .
Quote:
All ROKON models have optional upgrades for power take offs for powering a wide range of powered equipment, including pumps for dredges (or other uses), sprayers, and power generators. Attachments such as mowers, garden plows, tillers, spreaders, along with the three point hitch.
Trailers, side cars, rifle racks, game carriers, brush guards, along with a very wide range of accessories are available.
. . . since they already feature a 'power take off', its possible that this could be used to drive a sidecar wheel.

You can even get a 'Three Point Hitch' to take a Rokon plowing!

I did read that they've had 'cars on the left, as well as on the right.
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Old 06-10-2008, 11:24 AM   #15
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the Norton Big 4


Driveshaft detail


Notice on sidebox which indicates that its a non-differential system for 'Soft Ground' only!


Drive takeoff point - the drivechain in on the LHS.


Big 4 outfit inside glider. (Thicker tube in line with rear hub appears to be cross-driveshaft.)


Outfit with Motleymount and Thompson.


Outfit with 3 inch Mortar. (The cross-shaft is visible)


They fielded plenty of Norton Big 4's in France in 1940!

(source: http://home.planet.nl/~schm0361/Norton%20Big%204%20Combination.html
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