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Old 01-14-2009, 09:03 AM   #19741
AWM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bajadawg
Dyno numbers?
The stock DR,and most motorcycles for that matter come from the factory lean.Then depending on what elevation you live at,and what air densidy you get in you carb some guys[and girls]bikes dont run right.
Most jet changes are to get the bike run better!Then depending on what mods you do like a pipe or air cleaner,etc,you jet for optilmal run condition.
The DR is lean to pass emissions.If you burn to lean you can damage the motor.I have seen bikes burn a hole in the piston from being to lean!
Its not a perfomence mod,althought rich'n or lean'n out your fuel mixture can free up HP that was there from optilmil run'n condition.
If you put a pipe on your bike,i would assume it would be to let it breath better.If you get more air flow'n thru the motor the more HP it can make.If you get a pipe with almost the same back pressure,then the only point i can see in that is too drop weight.More then likely you'll still have to fat'n up the fuel mixture.
Cleaning your air filter will change air flow,the key is to get the happy medium,nomatter what mod has been done your not done.One of my DR's is stock,and i still had to shim the jet to an aceptiblie fuel mixture.
Everyones bike will be differnt,depending on where you live and what mods are done or not done.Eevn the way you ride will determene how you jet!!
Reading plugs in an important part of owning a motorcycle!!!
Just my two cents.


I do understand fuel/air mixture. Do you really think suzuki would sell a bike that would burn a hole in the piston? I doubt you'll ever find a stock bike that someone has burned a hole in the piston. I taught the MSF course for 3 years. The range owner was probably the cheapest range owner you'll find. We had bikes with 20k miles of range use with stock jetting. The pipes would glow red with choke on warming them up on cold mornings. Not one of them ever burned up. Can you get a bike to run better than stock? Of course. Would I like to see actual data to back up all the talk? Yes.

If you actually read what I wrote about the reason I want a pipe you wouldn't have to "assume it was to let it breathe better". I want less weight.
I said that if you weren't look'n to make it breath better that i could only assume you wanted to drop weight,concern'n the pipe change.
I didn't say i've seen stock bikes burn holes in pistons.My point was that i have seen bikes run'n way to lean burn holes in pistons!Suzuki sells bikes that run lean to pass emissons.If you change pipes or air cleaners etc without reading the plugs for a proper fuel mixture there is a possibility of that happen'n!
So i guess you didn't read what i typed.
Glow'n red pipes etc,is not a good thing,and i understand you didn't see one burn up in the few hours at a MSF class.But after prolonged usige of a motor glow'n red from a lean fuel mixture you will see problems occur!
Other wise cars and bikes wouldn't have cool'n systems.
I wasn't try to bust your balls,just help you out.Hot motors,for any reason do not perfom properly.Just like a bike that runs to rich,a bike that runs lean is just as bad!Really lean is alot worse!
My point was to read your plugs nomatter what mod or in stock trim your bike has.The key is to find the happy meduim.
Take it for what it is,advise.If you don't want it don't take.
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Old 01-14-2009, 09:14 AM   #19742
GTSRIG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neepuk
Dude, you wuzzint kidding around.... The spring is already here! Overnight!
Hmmm. I sent it regular parcel post. I guess the snail mail can be pretty fast at times.
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Old 01-14-2009, 09:31 AM   #19743
Lil' Steve
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bajadawg
All this talk of jetting and I have yet to see any dyno numbers. If I wanted that much more power I'd get a XR650 or KTM. I love my 57mpg's. I don't need a safari tank to cover 270 miles. I'll do work to the suspension and get a steering stabilizer. That'll make the bike faster off road. I'll probably get the supertrapp pipe so I can have the same back pressure as stock and drop some weight. My two cents.


Jeff from Procycle has done lots of dyno testing with various mods to the DR. Here's an air filter dyno run from his site...






And here's a stock exhaust vs FMF pipe run...


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Old 01-14-2009, 09:51 AM   #19744
vnp514
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Neutral Sending Unit

Ok,

Since we've got the snow, ice, cold, etc. still going on here, I figured I'd check my NSU on my 2002 DR. Before I do, here is what I've learned doing some searching around:

You can lay the bike on it's left side to do this procedure.

The side cover bolts are different sizes-pay attention here.

The bottom bolt is easy to get out, the upper bolt is a booger to get out. Might be able to use a box end wrench and attach a screw driver bit of the proper size to get to it.

I plan on just taking mine out for piece of mind. The only thing I won't have is the green neutral light-right??

Has anyone done any pics on this job from start to finish? Any other pointers before I start this task?

Thanks

Pete
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Old 01-14-2009, 10:07 AM   #19745
procycle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bajadawg
Awesome. Thanks for the info. For me the increase in power doesn't seem like it would be worth losing 50 miles in range.
You don't have to lose any fuel mileage if the jetting is done properly.
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Old 01-14-2009, 10:10 AM   #19746
AWM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vnp514
Ok,

Since we've got the snow, ice, cold, etc. still going on here, I figured I'd check my NSU on my 2002 DR. Before I do, here is what I've learned doing some searching around:

You can lay the bike on it's left side to do this procedure.

The side cover bolts are different sizes-pay attention here.

The bottom bolt is easy to get out, the upper bolt is a booger to get out. Might be able to use a box end wrench and attach a screw driver bit of the proper size to get to it.

I plan on just taking mine out for piece of mind. The only thing I won't have is the green neutral light-right??

Has anyone done any pics on this job from start to finish? Any other pointers before I start this task?

Thanks

Pete
See what you can find here!

http://dr650.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page
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Old 01-14-2009, 10:24 AM   #19747
LukasM
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Location: On a RTW ride - currently SE Asia on the way to OZ
Oddometer: 5,426
Quote:
Originally Posted by vnp514
Ok,

Since we've got the snow, ice, cold, etc. still going on here, I figured I'd check my NSU on my 2002 DR. Before I do, here is what I've learned doing some searching around:

You can lay the bike on it's left side to do this procedure.

The side cover bolts are different sizes-pay attention here.

The bottom bolt is easy to get out, the upper bolt is a booger to get out. Might be able to use a box end wrench and attach a screw driver bit of the proper size to get to it.

I plan on just taking mine out for piece of mind. The only thing I won't have is the green neutral light-right??

Has anyone done any pics on this job from start to finish? Any other pointers before I start this task?

Thanks

Pete
When you lay the bike on the side, either put something under the frame near the shift lever or take it off. Otherwise it will bend as it contacts the floor.



Use a piece of cardboard or similar and stick the screws in it using the layout of the clutch cover:



I recommend taking off the foot peg and rear MC so you can swing the brake pedal out of the way. Otherwise you have to take the pin out of the pedal pivot which is a bit more complicated.




If you can't access the upper NSU screw you can take the clutch off easily even if you don't have the special tool. Just put the bike in gear and block the rear wheel (I used a broom) when you take off the nut.

The rest is straight forward, get back to us if you have any questions.

Lukas
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Old 01-14-2009, 10:32 AM   #19748
miniroot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LukasM
Use a piece of cardboard or similar and stick the screws in it using the layout of the clutch cover:

Neat! Both in the "good idea" sense and the "anally retentive" sense.

;)

I usually just lay them out in order on the floor. Then, I usually forget and boot them across the floor. And then I usually spend fifteen minutes swearing.
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Old 01-14-2009, 10:39 AM   #19749
LukasM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miniroot
Neat! Both in the "good idea" sense and the "anally retentive" sense.

;)

I usually just lay them out in order on the floor. Then, I usually forget and boot them across the floor. And then I usually spend fifteen minutes swearing.
Yeah, I used to laugh at tips like that as well. Then I realized what I mess I am and that things tend to get in the way. I took that picture 3 weeks ago and the bike is still in pieces. Found out my clutch hub is shot so I'm still looking for a cheap used one.

So more like 15 minutes of swearing and then a few hours trying to figure out what goes where. And in the end there are still a couple of screws left over...
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Old 01-14-2009, 01:22 PM   #19750
McB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LukasM
.

And in the end there are still a couple of screws left over...
I usually count those as 'weight reduction measures'.
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Old 01-14-2009, 01:45 PM   #19751
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LukasM
Yeah, I used to laugh at tips like that as well. Then I realized what I mess I am and that things tend to get in the way. I took that picture 3 weeks ago and the bike is still in pieces.
Aye, that's the rub. My workshop was a no-go area for a month while I waited for parts to complete my DR200 rebuild. I had the engine laid out in "chronological order", anti-clockwise around the room, on all but six square feet of workbench.

My father used to take photos as he tore an engine down. That was back in the days of real celluloid film, as well. With digital photography so cheap, I don't know why I didn't do the same.

But that really is a good tip, with the cardboard.

Quote:
Found out my clutch hub is shot so I'm still looking for a cheap used one.
Are DR650 hubs that expensive? I spent months fannying around trying to avoid the cost of a new DR200 hub, possibly at the expense of the engine (see above) and certainly at the expense of my blood pressure. Turned out that a new hub was something stupid like NZ$50. I spent more money on replacement friction plates.
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Old 01-14-2009, 02:02 PM   #19752
Rusty Rocket
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Use a piece of cardboard or similar and stick the screws in it using the layout of the clutch cover:



A picture is worth a thousand words. I was going to try to describe this exact tip in words. Thanks you saved me from typing alot.

I have done this exact same thing for years. I still have a piece of cardboard lying on my garage floor from when I last checked the NSU screws.

BTW, just got my RaceTech .46 springs for the forks from Cogent. (NC Rick)
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Old 01-14-2009, 02:09 PM   #19753
vnp514
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Lukas,

Thanks a bunch. Some great tips AND PICS!!

Pete





Quote:
Originally Posted by LukasM
When you lay the bike on the side, either put something under the frame near the shift lever or take it off. Otherwise it will bend as it contacts the floor.



Use a piece of cardboard or similar and stick the screws in it using the layout of the clutch cover:



I recommend taking off the foot peg and rear MC so you can swing the brake pedal out of the way. Otherwise you have to take the pin out of the pedal pivot which is a bit more complicated.




If you can't access the upper NSU screw you can take the clutch off easily even if you don't have the special tool. Just put the bike in gear and block the rear wheel (I used a broom) when you take off the nut.

The rest is straight forward, get back to us if you have any questions.

Lukas
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Old 01-14-2009, 02:51 PM   #19754
Watson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by awm
.....My point was that i have seen bikes run'n way to lean burn holes in pistons!Suzuki sells bikes that run lean to pass emissons.If you change pipes or air cleaners etc without reading the plugs for a proper fuel mixture there is a possibility of that happen'n!

....glow'n red pipes etc,is not a good thing
I wonder if anyone has taken a piston-powered aircraft approach to managing fuel/air mixture. Mixture controlled by the pilot - proper adjustments estimated and made based on rpm drop and exhaust gas temp....if my memory serves me correctly...
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Old 01-14-2009, 03:14 PM   #19755
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watson
I wonder if anyone has taken a piston-powered aircraft approach to managing fuel/air mixture. Mixture controlled by the pilot - proper adjustments estimated and made based on rpm drop and exhaust gas temp....if my memory serves me correctly...

It would take a new breed of DR650 rider I think. A lot of us like this bike because it's simple and doesn't have too many guages and switches and lights and dials.

Imagine doing all that watching and adjusting while bashing along down a dirt road. Too much thinking for my brain while riding. I'm lucky just to remember "bars up, tires down.....bars up, tires down.......bars up, tires down....."
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