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Old 01-14-2009, 04:14 PM   #19756
STARSKEY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watson
I wonder if anyone has taken a piston-powered aircraft approach to managing fuel/air mixture. Mixture controlled by the pilot - proper adjustments estimated and made based on rpm drop and exhaust gas temp....if my memory serves me correctly...

It would take a new breed of DR650 rider I think. A lot of us like this bike because it's simple and doesn't have too many guages and switches and lights and dials.

Imagine doing all that watching and adjusting while bashing along down a dirt road. Too much thinking for my brain while riding. I'm lucky just to remember "bars up, tires down.....bars up, tires down.......bars up, tires down....."
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Old 01-14-2009, 04:28 PM   #19757
talbertnz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LukasM
... And in the end there are still a couple of screws left over...
Glad to hear im not the only one with that problem....
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Old 01-14-2009, 04:54 PM   #19758
AndrewL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watson
I wonder if anyone has taken a piston-powered aircraft approach to managing fuel/air mixture. Mixture controlled by the pilot - proper adjustments estimated and made based on rpm drop and exhaust gas temp....if my memory serves me correctly...
EGT is only good measurement for relatively static rpm and load - that is not a MC environment unless droning down a highway. EGO is the go - but you won't see them in aircraft due to the amount of lead, even in the LL stuff.
Some Bing aircraft carbs have adjustable needles, but if that particular setup were applied to a MC carb, it would be virtually unusable due to cable friction... but it can be done.
Easiest and quite possibly cheaper (if you place value on your time) solution would be fuel injection with wide band EGO and closed loop operation at low loads. No altitude problems either if done right. For the keen, Megasquirt and Microsquirt controllers are capable of doing this. Big problem is finding the power to drive the electronics and fuel pump.

Cheers
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Old 01-14-2009, 05:01 PM   #19759
Django Loco
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McB
Dave Searle's series on the DR sucked. I let my subscription lapse after reading the last installment. Trying to follow his process was like following a rabbit through a briarpatch. He talks proudly of the modifications he made to make it more 'tourworthy', then later in the article he's not happy with what he's done and wants to try something else. Hell, it's easier getting straight, well-researched advice on an internet forum.
He installed an FMF, rejetted, lost mileage, repacked, rejetted, took the carb apart in a motel room, put foam blocks in the fuel tank and blamed them for lack of range only to announce in the next issue it was really the carb mods that did it.....
He tried a gel seat, then drilled holes in the stock seat, then added an Airhawk, then in a later article said it had the gel seat on it without explaining why he went back to it.
I wish they'd spent their money on good writing instead of colored ink.
I totally agree with you. Seems to me 'ol Dave was running in circles! Dave needs a good Editor to kick his butt and get his articles in order. It's clear he should have held off before coming to conclusions that he later had to recant on. That is just stupid.

Technical articles are very tough. I've done them. I always get help and I always do extensive testing before publishing results. Also, your testing regime has to be consistent and somewhat scientific.
(hey it's motorcycles not Titan Rockets ) But still, good data comes from long hours of testing and more testing and lots of changes.

I have met Dave several times and have ridden with him (at bike intros). Nice guy. But I must admit he was out of his depth on this. He is not, far as I know, a dirt rider and does not have a dual sport background or, for that matter a mechanical background. My guess is he didn't have any help. I'll bet he'll do better next time.

Django Loco screwed with this post 01-14-2009 at 05:38 PM
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Old 01-14-2009, 05:14 PM   #19760
Django Loco
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sw3dl1
I just removed a FMF-Q pipe from a 2002 DR650 that had been rejetted with a Dyna-Jet kit. 160 main jet, I don't remember what notch the needle was on. The top of the air box had not been cut but had been drilled in 8 places and the snorkel removed.
I replaced the FMF with a stock pipe, replaced the needle with stock. Re-jetted the carb with the stock 42.5 pilot jet and went to a 145 main jet. The air-idle screw is turned out about 1 1/2 turns.
So far the bike runs perfectly and gets about 48 to 51 MPG.
With the exception of the drilled air box and 1 step richer main jet I am back to the stock configuration. It runs good, I'm going to leave it alone until it needs attention!!
Those are very good MPG numbers! I would do a plug check to see it you might be running a hair too lean. A white plug is not good. Since you still have the air box open and with much leaner jetting, you could be too lean, which over time, could burn a valve or overheat the top of the piston. The FMF pipe changes almost nothing regards mixture. Air box mods DO affect mixture and lean out mixture considerably.

Good luck!
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Old 01-14-2009, 05:21 PM   #19761
Django Loco
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Quote:
Originally Posted by awm
See what you can find here!

http://dr650.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page
No step by step on NSU repair there. Very general stuff. The real deal is HERE, on this thread ....somewhere.

Where? I have no idea!
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Old 01-14-2009, 05:25 PM   #19762
AWM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watson
I wonder if anyone has taken a piston-powered aircraft approach to managing fuel/air mixture. Mixture controlled by the pilot - proper adjustments estimated and made based on rpm drop and exhaust gas temp....if my memory serves me correctly...
I know years ago someone made a adjustible main jet for an S&S carb for harleys.The main jet on those carbs are on the bottom,and it was a t-handle knob on the main.You could dial it in as you went,like an idle adjust.
I had a 52 panhead with a spark advance,and you could almost get the same result by retard'n the spark.
Or atleast i'd foul out the plugs if didn't have it set right when she warmed up.
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Old 01-14-2009, 06:13 PM   #19763
LukasM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Django Loco
No step by step on NSU repair there. Very general stuff. The real deal is HERE, on this thread ....somewhere.

Where? I have no idea!
I don't think anybody posted step by step instructions on here either. Although I do remember a blurry pic that showed the NSU.

Maybe these will help somebody anyway.

1. Unbolt everything (also the oil line) from the clutch cover. Observe the tips I posted above and swing the pedal out of the way. To remove the clutch actuating arm, you might have remove the header (my FMF is oversize and in the way). Then the cover should come off and look like this. The red arrow points to the NSU which is hidden by the clutch and the red circle is a hole that you should block with a rag so nothing falls in there. I forgot and was lucky, although you can see it in the last picture of this post.




From this angle you can see the NSU in the lower left corner:




2. If you have access to a right angle screwdriver or similar you might get the upper screw out with it. Otherwise you will have to take off the clutch. Take all the bolts out that hold the pressure plate.




3. Once you have removed them you can take off the pressure plate. You can now see the big nut. If you don't have a clutch removal tool, put the bike and gear and block the wheel so it can't turn. Bend the locking tab out of the way and take off the nut.




4. After removing the nut you can take off the clutch basket. You now have perfect access to the NSU bolts:




5. Either remove the NSU completely (you will have to cut off the cables inside the case so they still seal the opening) or loctite in the screws. I replaced them with stainless allen head bolts.




6. Check your clutch plates for wear, the specs are in the manual. Then re-assemble in reverse order. Don't let a week pass or at least take some pictures, otherwise you WILL forget the order of washer, plates etc.


Lukas
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Old 01-14-2009, 06:30 PM   #19764
Waldo308
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Wisdom from STARKEY....

Quote:
Originally Posted by STARSKEY
I'm lucky just to remember "bars up, tires down.....bars up, tires down.......bars up, tires down....."
....glad to see I'm not the only one with THAT problem!

LukasM:

Thanks a million for the detailed pictures. I am right at the point where I'm either gonna hafta make a customer screwdriver or take the clutch basket out. Your info is a tremendous help. Kudos.
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Old 01-14-2009, 06:34 PM   #19765
McB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STARSKEY
It would take a new breed of DR650 rider I think. A lot of us like this bike because it's simple and doesn't have too many guages and switches and lights and dials.

Imagine doing all that watching and adjusting while bashing along down a dirt road. Too much thinking for my brain while riding. I'm lucky just to remember "bars up, tires down.....bars up, tires down.......bars up, tires down....."
While you're there, why not a manual spark advance, too?
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Old 01-14-2009, 06:41 PM   #19766
McB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Django Loco
Seems to me 'ol Dave was running in circles!
Thanks for the perspective. I liked what he wrote in the dual sport comparison issue about simplicity and fun; his take on the DR was a big factor in my choosing a DR over a KLR.

I was about to give him a pass and blame it on an inattentive editor, but thought "wait a minute" and grabbed a copy from the coffee table. Inside front cover: David Searle, Editor.
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Old 01-14-2009, 07:56 PM   #19767
NordieBoy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bajadawg
All this talk of jetting and I have yet to see any dyno numbers. If I wanted that much more power I'd get a XR650 or KTM. I love my 57mpg's. I don't need a safari tank to cover 270 miles. I'll do work to the suspension and get a steering stabilizer. That'll make the bike faster off road. I'll probably get the supertrapp pipe so I can have the same back pressure as stock and drop some weight. My two cents.
Search better. The numbers are out there.
A DJ kit and pipe to me ment more bottom end and mid range.
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Old 01-14-2009, 07:59 PM   #19768
NordieBoy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by napster
Nov. '08 MCN gave these #'s after installing the dynojet kit. Hp increased from 35.6 stock to 39.3, torque from 33.8 to 38.1. However mileage went from 52.5 to 42.1!!!!
Dunno about those HP numbers unless they also did the pipe, airbox etc.
Also sounds like they were running a bit too rich (165 main?).
I'm was getting about 48mpg with all the bits done.
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Old 01-14-2009, 07:59 PM   #19769
doc_ricketts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Django Loco
No step by step on NSU repair there. Very general stuff. The real deal is HERE, on this thread ....somewhere.

Where? I have no idea!
I am surprised, but here we go again.
1) remove clutch side housing after draining oil or laying bike on the side
2) use a right angle screwdriver and remove the NSU screws and then throw the damned thing away after step 3)
3) cut the wire to the NSU at the boss in the main housing. No need to insulate or other, just clip the darned thing close to the boss so it doesn't get wrapped in the clutch
4) replace cover and/or oil.

Now how hard is that? The NSU is like a third testicle (and on your arm), you will never miss it.
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Old 01-14-2009, 08:33 PM   #19770
Pike Bishop
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LukasM
I don't think anybody posted step by step instructions on here either. Although I do remember a blurry pic that showed the NSU.

Maybe these will help somebody anyway.
AWESOME POST, LUCAS, THANKS!

This one's gettin' archived and squirreled away for future reference...
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