<b>You do good work Doc! Thanks!</b> I bet you really wanted to be a Gynocologist when you were a little boy, right? <i>(I know I did)</i>
Where is the saw for roadside amputation?:huh Wow man that is quite the kit. If I crash I want you to respond.
Thanks, bro! Not a chance! I want to look at the holiest of holies as a place of joy,goodness and happy feelings. Not some old, nasty-ass infested work area. IOW, gynos don't get to pick the p***y they work on.
everything else is very minimal i need to up grade. anyone carry a fire exstinguisher? the chef gave me one about the size of a shave cream can,i have not brought it along yet.
I didn't review the whole thread so apologies if this is redundant. It's the ability to improvise that separates the heroes from the observers, not the amount of equipment. Two safety pins and a t-shirt make an arm sling. One or two safety pins can attach an unconcious person's tongue to his lower lip, thus maintaining his airway (it works!). Duct tape and a Sam Splint (or a stick of wood) can immobilize most fractures. Etc., etc. There are several excellent wilderness medicine conferences, scattered around the country in places such as Snowmass, Tahoe and Big Sky. If someone was interested in an excellent ride and a little learning he could just wander into one of these. None of the ones I have attended do any sort of checking as to whether or not one is a paid participant. Most will have a lecture or two regarding improvisation, as well as some more technical subjects for those who are interested. Best regards, Dave
Hi Ed, Try Tour Kit www.hhjm.com/jff/jfoooo1.htm. This was written up sometime ago in Motorcycle Consumer News as a best buy in First Aid Kits. The website has a list of contents which is pretty extensive. I believe it can be had for about $49.00.
Total agreement. However, since I have space in my car and have access to the stuff, I figger WTF. The most important 1st aid tool is your brain.
Here is the very rough sketch of how the legal end of it goes, it ain't legal advice, just a very rough idea of how tort law works for Samaritans. It takes seven years of college and a slightly masochistic personality to become a damn lawyer, so you cant expect a whole lot in a few paragraphs. There, now that my ass is covered here is the deal. If you offer help to someone do not exceed your training. For someone to successfully sue you then you pretty much have to fuck up somehow. Please for the love of all that is holy do let this turn into a thread of urban myths about burglars who got shot robbing homes and then won a million dollars from the theft victim - they are all bullshit, even the one that your neighbors swears up and down happened to his cousins best friend. When rendering aid if you have only CPR training then don't decide you have the skills to do a tracheotomy there in the woods and you ought to be fine. If you have a higher skill set, like some of the medics and Docs who contributed so far, you can exercise your skill and render aid as need requires, and your skill level permits. If you have no training go get help, because you are more likely to do harm than to help, and that is what will get you sued. If you make a judgment call, and you have the skills to justify making the call the law lets you be wrong and not lose a lawsuit. The more training you have the higher a skill level you will be expected to exert once you begin rendering air, but even the best Dr. in the world can just walk by your bleeding body, decide not to help and you cannot sue her because she ain't got no damn duty to help. No one has a duty to render aid under tort law, but if you begin to render aid you need to do so to the best of training and ability and not quit until new help arrives, help is no longer necessary, circumstance or exhaustion prevents you from continuing, or you are relieved by another helper. Here is the catch, even when you are right, there is nothing to stop some shitbag ambulance chasing hack from filing a suit, he just won't win. If you never want to risk getting sued, then never help. I am just glad most people here don't think that way. I am also glad the guys who say will help are out there. If you get jammed up because you offered someone medical help than call me and I will offer you some free legal first aid.
Hummmmmmm Curious comments: we have everything from basic kits to an attempt to duplicate an emergency room. I believe that you need to step back and ask, specifiically, "What is your goal with this kit?" You should be in "first responder" mode if you are dealing with someone that you do not know. You stabilize the victim and turn them over to the physicians in the Trauma Center. Heroic measures beyond your training at the side of the road could be deemed practicing medicine without a license and may well not be covered by Good Samaritan laws. My personal -bottom line- opinions for the blunt trauma victim: 1. To render any significant (life sustaining) assistance, you need to arrive within 2 minutes. 2. The assistance that will make a difference is to open the airway which is an easy procedure and one that you may wish to learn. 3. If you feel that CPR needs to be performed in a victim of severe blunt trauma, the patient is most likely dead. Usually, the only severe blunt trauma patients that survive are the ones that make it to the ED essentially under their own power or with minimal help. What these patients need is fluid in their arteries. Chest compressions move fluid in the blood vessels, but if there is no fluid in the blood vessels, compressions do little. Disclaimer: This should not be interpreted to discourage CPR. If you have the training and feel that the patient should have CPR by all means give it a try. As an anatomical idiosyncrasy, the heart floats in the chest on the aorta (main artery from the heart to the body) and in a rapid deceration injury, the heart keeps moving in relation to the heart and you sustain a high pressure tear in your plumbing, lose blood pressure, lose consciousness, become brain dead and die in a matter of a few minutes. In addition, if you were to sustain this type of injury by falling off the roof of the ED, you most likely would die as well. You can overcome small tears with rapid, massive amounts of IV fluids and blood and then immediate surgery, but this is not usually available at the side of the road. Now if you get shot or have bleeding from a limb or an internal organ, the bleeding is slower and if the above treatment is instituted, you can survive. But, again, this is not "side of the road" treatment. So, KISS (keep it simple sucker), just open the airway- that may save a life. Other comments: 1. If you need to take narcotics to be able to ride, you shouldn't be riding. 2. You can be more aggressive in your treatment of riding companions especially in third world countries. 3. I carry a few different types of antibiotics (cholera, tourista, malaria, skin, pneumonia, UTI...), some splints mostly for fingers, lidocaine for injection, various sutures for both surface and deep lacerations, non steroidals (no narcs) and a few surgical tools in additon to a few dressings. 4. Parachute cord makes a good figure-of-eight splint for clavicular (collarbone) fractures. Loop around the front of both shoulders and tie in the back. You'll need to put padding in front of the shulders becasue the cord will dig in. Do I use these treatments for non-companions? No. Do I stop for accidents if it appears that more than 5 minutes have elapsed and there is adequate help on the scene already? No. 4. Here is an emergency suture kit for use in remote locations where no reliable emergency help is available: Get an 18 ga hypodermic needle (available at farm stores) and some light monofilament fishing line. Ice is a very effective anesthetic. Clean the area with your Betadine or Hibiclens and push the 18 ga through just as you would sew a tear, then thread the monofilament through the needle, remove the 18 ga and tie the monofilament with a square knot about 4 or 5 times (monofilament likes to untie). I'd suggest buying a fresh pig's foot, cause a few lacerations and repair them before you try this for the first time in Laos. Having said that, I will also say that, to the chagrin of most physicians, most lacerations will heal extremely well with minimal scarring without sutures (secondary intention). If you are having to decide whether or not the laceration needs suturing, it most likely does not. Disclaimer: these recommendations are personal opinions and intended for licensed physicians only who should use their own professional judgement in the context of a particular patient's presentation. They not for use by untrained individuals. Any trauma victim should be safely and rapidly transported to legitimate medical providers by a trained ambulance crew for professional treatment. LVR
LVR... I can tell you have had some "field fun" too! I will not post what I carry... but I also share your opinion about first response, but in remote travel, my "extensive" kit has (literally) saved lives. When ever I am overseas, I update my meds (that I can not get here in the US with out Doctor's raising a few brows) and make sure I keep up to date skills and meds! Funny, your recommendation on a Pigs foot is SPOT ON! How have someone shake it back and forth when your trying to do it! Whenever I had to do this their was not time for any local anesthesia. When in the US, I do not expect to need these... last time was a week (down) the Grand Canyon to close an forehead cut from an oar... turned out to be a clean job. Thank GOD... I can imagine a law suite otherwise. Not something you want to do the first time in the field! Most of the time my med-kit is opened for minor cuts, chill packs, re-hydration and aspirin. BTW- My sleeve on my jacket and a label on my helmet contain vital medical information in case (when?) I crash and may not be able to speak. Having been first to respond many times, I recall the need for this information ASAP... and I make sure I keep my med kit up-to-spec. In general, I would NOT recommend this level of medical attention in the USA... even resuscitation is something I think about if I do not know how long they have been down, yet I have a "responsibility" to provide aid ... real subjective issue. You will know what to do if you have been trained and experienced. Nothing like extensive training in Washington D.C. General ER's on a weekend night shift! Shit... I was attacked by clients there!
I'm very much an amateur at medical stuff, but in my occupation disasters tend to happen at the worst times. They also tend to be BAD! I have designed a poor man's kit that works well enough for me. 1- Wrapped sanitary napkins. Yeah, I know....however they absorb mass quantities of blood, and the plastic wrapper can be used for stuff like stopping a sucking chest wound (been there done that). Also regular medical gauze. 2- Flexible tape, regular medical tape, and duct tape. Use your imagination and apply the best adhesive to the problem. 3- Hydrogen peroxide and Neosporin. 4-Super glue. Used, after cleaning the small wound well with the peroxide, like stitches. Large wounds need to be sealed with the napkins and taped. 5-Eye drops. 6-Asprin, Motrin, etc. 7-A pocket mask (I use the Laerdal) so you can do respirations without actual mouth to mouth. You may not want to lip lock some of the people you could encounter. 8-Scissors, pocket knife,etc. (I prefer the pocket knife,more useful) 9-Rubber gloves. 10-Cell phone. 11-kept in zip lock bags in a U.S. Jeep canvas tool bag(er two). Before you jump in, go to a Red Cross First Responder class. Learn first aid and CPR, and I mean LEARN it! The above kit is basic but with a little common sense and using other normally available stuff you will get by. Do not forget that you will not always be able to keep your victim alive. Do your best and move on! Seen alot of death and saved a few. "All men die, not all men really live." Mel Gibson (Brave Heart). RWLWFWH(Hey, hey, hey.....Let's be careful out there people!) Dawg
Know your capacities and limitations, help within the margins of your knowldege. Trying to do more, usually will get mistakes on the scene, keep a cool head. Sometimes the best way to help is minimal action and fast reaction. Be prepared with a basic first aid kit and on the basics of CPR and when riding with a group know who can help in case of an accident.
Don't ever take an accident lightly, especially if any speed above 20mph is involved. The victim can believe they are OK with internal injuries and bleed out. Also, swelling takes a while before it causes pain, so the victim may be relatively pain free for the first few minutes. MAKE them stay still even if they think they are OK. Have everyone park ahead of (away from) the accident, not behind it. This leaves room for emergency vehicles when they arrive. Have someone flag traffic. Get everyone off safely the road and watch for oncoming traffic. Do NOT remove the victims helmet. (you may cause more damage) If the helmet absolutely MUST be removed, and I'm talking only when the person is not breathing, use two people. One person will stradle the patient. Do NOT sit on the person. Work your hands into the helmet as the other person is pulling the helmet FROM BOTH SIDES away from the persons head so the other person's hands can be inserted careful not to move the patient's head, it isn't possible to NOT move the head but try to as little as possible. If at all possible, try to get your hands in enough to cup the ears. Once that's done, hold the head firmly as the other person gently, slowly, and methodically works the helmet off. Once the helmet is off, continue to hold the head in position (C-Spine). The other person will come over and place his/her hands over yours and take over C-Spine as you slide your hands out. Once this is done you can dismount and start CPR using the jaw-thrust maneuver. Most good CPR courses will cover helmet removal during the course. Practice it at home. Broken ribs and collarbones are common. Check to make sure the victim can breathe. [What should be done if not?] Move the victim as little as possible. Have a cell phone. 911 starts LEO and EMS response. LEO is usually first responder. Have a rescue vehicle for two bikes lined up. I heard there is an AMA registry for this. (see next) Someone needs to be with the victim in the emergency vehicle to handle the contacts and logistics. Do not relay anxiety, calm the victim. http://www.bikesafe.co.uk/bikesafe/firstaid/firstaid.html List of contents: 1 abdominal pad 12cm x 22cm 2 sterile gauze pads 10cm x 10cm 4 non-adherent pads 7.6 x 10.2cm 1 sterile compress bandage 10cm 2 rolls Cling Wrap 2 Triangular Bandages 1 roll 2.5cm x 4.6m waterproof adhesive tape 1 Water-jel burn dressing 5cm x 15cm 3 pairs of medical examining gloves 6 Q-tips 1 Scissors, surgical, 15cm stainless steel 3 Sting stop prep pads 4 BZK antiseptic towelettes 4 Povidone-Iodine prep pads 1 Knuckle bandages, 3.8cm x 7.5cm, sterile 1 sterile fingertip bandages, 4.4cm x 5 cm 4 sterile elastic adhesive bandages 2.2cm x 7.5cm 2 Butterfly closures 1 Rubber elastic bandage, 7.5cm x 4.6m 1 Wire splint 1 CPR Airway 1 "Call Police" banner In the Road Rash Bag: 2 Bactigras treated antibacterial gauze packs 2 rolls of Cling Wrap 6 BZK antiseptic towelettes 6 Povidone-Iodine prep pads 4 non-adherent pads 7.6 x 10.2cm
I noticed a bunch of posts fretting over the lawyer junk. I say forget about it and help when you can. If the jerk or their family wants to sue I'll wait for The Higher Court to settle it. Besides, if you take it to the box (jury) imagine how a panel would feel about the jerk or family pulling that greedy stuff. Now, this all depends on your use of common sense. Most of you seem reasonably sound....do not do more than you are trained to. As to the mega kits posted, WOW, simply amazing! I certainly hope if I smash up bad one of these fellows is at hand. For the rest of us K.I.S.S. is the concept. Remember the ABCs (airway,breathing,and circulation). Your victim must be able to breath, do what ever it takes to make that happen (AB covered). Circulation is a ditto. The heart is first priority here. If that is not a problem then bleeding must be controlled, fix it. Shock will kill next, keep them warm and keep blood flowing to the head area (do what it takes, C covered). I know this is a simplistic explanation but anyone who has first responder training knows exactly what I am talking about. Also, anyone who has done this for a living knows that the text book only works in class. When you get on scene there is always going to be a SNAFU and often a FUBAR involved. If this simplistic explanation dusts you off...TAKE A CLASS. If you have not taken a Red Cross First Responder class (at minimum) you better just phone someone like me (911). Common sense is the ticket. I'll stop to help every time because that's what people like me do and I could not look into the mirror again if I could help and rode on. Improvise, adapt, and overcome this is what my kit does in my hands. RWLWFWH Dawg
Do you actually carry the kit pictured on your bike,or do you have a smaller one? Dude, I am really impressed with your set up. If the excrement hits the rotary blade you would be the man! RWLWFWH Dawg
I guess this is the post that some will not let die. No thank you, I don't want to ride with someone who has a kit that duplicates the bandages in the ED for two reasons: 1. The enormous kit means that they never really go anywhere because they have no adddtional room for the necessary gear to actually go on a legitimate trip. 2. But mostly because, armed with a bunch of bandages and some ointment, there will be the tendancy for untrained people or minimally trained people to play doctor at the side of the road and deprive the victim of their one slim chance for life and that is to be rapidly transported to an appropriately staffed treatment facility. The non-physician with the "great set-up" may well be your worst enemy. I carry very little and stop infrequently because I, actually, know what i am doing. LR
