Looks like the British championship and more has gone back to no stop rules to increase rider numbers. I like it, but sections would have to change or it would fall on the scorers.
i really don't understand this, is it about bike control and putting your feetdown or does everyone have to ride the scott trial where everyone just blasts up creeks and either make it or don't?
Sorry but if it's all about "bike control" then what do you call it when the rider is stopped with a foot down? That's not control. My bike is doing that right now in the garage....without me! We need to make our sport easier for the noob and more fun for the regular club riders. The fun of riding a properly set up no stop trial is not soon forgotten. I would rather ride than hop.
I'm a total noob and rode one no-stop event and one traditional (AMA) event. I much preferred the traditional event that allows for stopping and just takes points away for dabs if you stop with a foot down. From my perspective I don't see how a no-stop rule makes it any more accessible to a noob, and I am a noob so I should know I found the no-stop rule annoying enough that I plan to just to AMA events for now. I can see where a person might rather ride than hop, but as a noob I can't really hop very well and neither could most of the folks in my class. Hopping wasn't at all required for the noob lines. I did stop a few times (feet up thankfully) just to get oriented and remind myself which side of the split I needed to hit. If hopping isn't fun, why do you need a no-stop rule to reduce hopping? Why not leave the rules as they are and change the course layout so that hopping isn't required or advantageous. I know in the ryan young class he said he avoids hopping as much as possible and recommended that we do likewise. Presumably if the courses were laid out such that hopping wasn't required, riders wouldn't do a lot of hopping.
In my little world stopped with a foot down should be a 5, so long as the bike keeps moving even if it were being pushed with that 1 foot would be ok. anything else you could do with feet on pegs should be ok, to me this shows bike control. I can hop only a little, roll backwards a little if i'm lucky, ride a novice or int. line and like to stop if i can to regroup sometimes and don't think i should be penilized for this as it in my mind shows bike control especially at my skill level. If i could ride like tony bou i would be bouncing around on the back wheel all the time as i think this just shows super human bike control! Go tony!
The problem with allowing the hopping etc is that the sections then have to get very near impossible and sometimes dangerous to take marks off the top 3 riders. That has happened here in the British Championship and has resulted in an entry of 6 riders for a couple of the rounds this year. The other riders have either stopped coming all together or dropped down to the easier A class route... The clubs were starting to think that all the time, money and effort needed to set the champ class route was just not worth it for 6 riders so many pulled out. Only 6 rounds scheduled for 2012. .. and of course the world rounds have the same issue with lack of entries. Sometimes only just enough to make a full top ten!! You could not just tell the organisers to just set out sections that require no tricks, the top riders will be clean all day and get bored and just probably lose interest in the events. I love the trick riding myself, can't do it very well but it is incredible to watch. But something had to be done to try and make the trial worth setting out and the easiest method is to go no-stop so the sections become less dangerous for all but the top 3. We will still see the big climbs and huge rock steps but there will now have to be some space for a run up, or the section will be slightly less severe to allow for no-stop. As far as club level events go i don't see a need to change... most club riders can't do the tricks anyway and good clubs will set out sections for the ability of their riders. Also at club level you have many inexperienced or stand in observers who will only get confused by the no-stop rule and probably end up having abuse thrown at them for giving a 5 for a stop when the rider didn't see it that way... allow the stop and hop in the club events, most won't and can't anyway!!
... of course it has to be said that another major reason for the lower entries in national or world rounds is also the cost of travelling. Unless the travel was subsidised i think there is little they can do about that!
I think the sport will be taking a step backwards. What sport in this day n age gains popularity by being less extreme? Just look at the popularity of the last man standing type events and enduro cross. The arguments over stopping/not stopping is a real PITA as well. However, I can buy into it as a BTC experiment to find out if it helps or not. I just doubt it - but who knows. I think the biggest issue with the current format is difficulty. Heck - make it easier if you want - let the top three guys finish on a clean and have a shoot out for them! A 90 second rule helps as well. Just needs a countdown timer - not a lawyer and engineer to argue over if a stop occurred or not.
This was my first year competing in NETA events. I rode in a vintage event in Exeter RI this year that used all the original sections from the first US world round from 1975, it was a great event. I arrived a little late and didn't know it was no stop rules until I got out to the first section. The sections were very long so I had to think more about keeping my momentum and speed up and to try pre-planning for course deviations more than I normally do. I learned that speed was my new best friend in the stream climbing/crossing sections and learned a lot from watching some of the more senior riders who were experienced with the no stop technique. A NETA event was scheduled with different sections the next day and I definately stopped less and did better having the no stop rule still lingering in my head from the day before.
To Bikepilot, no stop is the traditional event. As you noted setting the sections correctly is the key element. I can relate to no stop having ridden for 40 years, but I prefer the stop and hop. I totally hate the current rules of stopping with a foot down. We gave the rider with no ability a four point mulligan. Must of been that make everyone feel good thing.
I ride with a club that uses no-stop rules, but they do allow for brief pause (1 second) before hitting you with the five. I have never ridden an event that allows the stop and hop stuff so I really don't have any opinion on that. What I do know is that from a spectator standpoint, I really enjoy the "flow" of a no-stop event vs. modern rules. The 90 second timer at the one national event I watched helped with keeping things moving but is probably too much hassle for a club level event. I can also appreciate that no-stop rules allow the trials master to make a more challenging section while keeping the danger relatively low. I have noticed that as I'm getting a little better, I find myself stopping to "set up" while practicing. I wonder how I'll feel about no-stop in another year or so... or if I ever learn to hop. And for the record, stopped with a foot down seems like it should be a 5 to me too.
Wrong - wrong - wrong! I so remember the year NATC decided on no stop. We rode a Saturday national in Colorado that was pretty relaxed about the no stop. Then drive friggin' forever to ride a Sunday nationals in New Mexico. Almost every section there were scoring Nazi's. five - five - five. One section as you entered they were watching the spokes. Five before your back tire entered the section. There were more protests than any national event I have ever ridden and that is well over 100 nationals. It was horrible because the trials came down to an observer deciding did you stop or not. I rode a vintage event this year with no stop rules and I was perplexed at best at the first section, pause = five. I hate it it for the national and club level trials. Enough that I could quit riding due to an observer deciding the outcome of the event. Hell trials is hard enough, why make it even harder due to interpretation. However, it would eliminate 2 riders in our club famous for track standing or stopping with their foot on the ground for like 5 minutes. Really, your in a sectiona nd now you need to stop for 5 minutes and look cool while you decide to go on. Leave us the FFFFUUUU along! Keep making changes and people will quit riding. We do this for fun and the Hooter chicks with big H......, that is all.
Oh c'mon Tony, I wasn't in the section for no 5 minutes. You didn't time me, did you? 4 minutes maybe, but certainly not 5...... Anyhoo, concerning the discussion,
Brewtus, hope you are going to SY today to start clerkin`. I`ll be home nursin` my wrist from a crash in a lower section. Can you say INT =ADV. Mr. A Team see how fast no stop adds those additional points. You did bring up a memory of mine at TTC of a bad call by a not too friendly observer 1 section from the end of a day. 2nd to 5th place, wanted to protest it,but had planned to get on the road home asap.
Traditional trials sections can still add marks to even the best riders score card. I have seen many riders on modern equipment fail sections at vintage trials competitions. As to 5’s being given out for stopping, I am sure that 5’s should only be given when someone stops and uses it to his advantage. Incidental stops should not be considered a 5 unless the bike rolls backward. Its the same as a rider brushing a shoulder on a tree. Its not considered a dab unless the rider uses the tree for balance or in some way to his advantage. Dave
... 'cuz it's all I can do related to trials right now. Trials is about riding the motorcycle. To me, riding means 'feet up.' What bothered me about clubs messing with stop 'n' hop is this idea about forward motion being critical. As far as I am concerned, if you have your feet up you are riding the motorcycle. If it's going forward, backward, sideways, or nowhere you are still riding the motorcycle as long as your feet are up. Penalizing lack of forward motion made observers' uncompensated work much harder and subject to argument. I find stop 'n' hop far more dramatic to watch as a rider positions the bike for the perfect approach, then balances to collect the thoughts, revs the mill, then dumps the clutch and goes. But a time limit in the section is essential to make sure riders don't take too long to set up, and it enhances the drama. When NMTA embraced no-stop a few years ago, it didn't change who was winning our upper classes. I remember watching Chuck and Eric letting the front wheels roll with amazing precision as they still hopped the rear wheels around for best position. But observers were asked to make more judgment calls about when motion stopped, and it just wasn't as much fun to observe when you were likely to cause a kerfluffle with a questionable five. I want to see the rules as simple and exclusive of gray area calls as possible. No-stop goes the wrong way from that, and it means nothing to me as a fan that a rider is stopped, because as I said before, when your foot touches down, you are no longer riding the motorcycle, and that should constitute a penalty. P.S., I personally agree that stopping with foot down .NE. 5 is a step backwards from the principle of riding the motorcycle.
Ridenm, you hit the nail dead square on the head. I personally do not care how you get through the section (stop, hop, etc.), but put your foot on the ground and you take a penalty point.
