Proper etiquette when encountering horseback riders

Elk. And they also pee in the middle of the road, and in the winter it freezes into ice patches that you're not expecting....

Let me see here, because horse shit makes better compost, "decomposes ...rather rapidly," (I'd need to data indicating such to believe decomposes faster than dog shit), and that you love having a pile of horse shit by your barn, the the rest of us should be perfectly happy to have horse shit scattered all over our roads, trails, campsites and parks?
rolleyes

In addition, to being a smelly, gross, mess, it is also full of fecal coliform (90% of dog) and hosts a slew of other diseases. If you type horse feces into google, the 1st suggestion is disease.

Dog owners, cat owner and humans generally are expected to clean up and properly dispose of their shit on our roadways, trails and public lands, why don't you start doing the same? If you are not willing to clean up after them, keep them on your own/private land. Stick to your own property and you can cover yourself in the shit if you want, just show some responsibility for your animal when you are in public places please! :huh

That's not the result that returned for me. Not even on the 1st page.

Not that it matters here for the haters, but:

"No major human disease outbreak has been accurately attributed to the contact human beings have had with horses. It is rare to find references in peer-reviewed literature on horses infecting people. Infectious equine diseases are usually solely of veterinary importance."

"The 9.2 million horses (USDA 2005, AHC 2005) in the US are a relatively minor livestock group compared to agro-business livestock production levels and stocking densities found on many high production farms. "

"According to the USDA Equine Report (2005), the horse is not instrumental in the chain of events that might precipitate significant human illness morbidity or mortality. Horses are not generally associated with transmitting diseases to man (Kester 1977, Magdesian 2008, Timoney 2002, DebRoy 2007, Mike Westendorf 2008). No major human disease outbreak has ever been accurately attributed to the intimate contact human beings have had with horses for thousands of years (Duell 1989)."

Linky


Now I'm off to see what you d00ds have posted in the "bicycles on the roads" thread...

So what? A major human disease outbreak hasnot been associated with dog shit either, yet the dog owners are polite enough to pick up after their animals when in public.

It's just like a horse owner to evade the true question.
Q: What gives horse riders the right to leave shit strewn about our roads, parks trails and campsites?

A: Because they think horses are special and as such, they are special and not bound to modern rules of common decency.

Possibly not major in terms of an epidemic but definitely major to the affected - look up Toxocariasis

Ouch!.... them big words, sister is pretty good with them, that's her job identifying them toxins. Toxoplasmosis and Toxocariasis, last time I got into them big words with her they were together in her brain files.:eek1

Hmmm... Horse steak. Some of the best meat out there.

As for the horse shit, how dare we ride in their toilet! I don't give a shit (pun intended) whether it decomposes relatively fast or not. It still is on the road until it gets cleaned away. Or until it cleans you off the road. That stuff can be slippery.

Yes, shit stinks even from horses. I do get horse back riding (even though my ass hurt like no other time after trying it), but they should really stay to "horsey" places and be as considerate as all other wilderness or road users. Like get off the road when a vehicle approaches. After all, a horse is mobile and easily stopped. A mountain bike has to start again with sometimes considerable effort. A motorbike can't walk sideways. Even though that would be cool sometimes.

A simple solution to the crap problem is used in some places:



While hereabouts you have even worse things to look out for (those buggers also cause even worse erosion than horses btw):

This incident just happened yesterday. Me and a buddy are riding up a singletrack trail and come up on a hunters camp right next to the trail. One of the hunters comes down the trail and meets us with waving hands and saying shut it down, shut it down. He said there horses are afraid of motorcycles and will we wait for them to leave before riding by. Said they were "cinching up now". I said OK at first and then he tells me it will be 20 minutes. I said no way and asked him what they were going to do when we catch up to them on the way out. He tells me we will have to wait for them to get out. "Horses have the right of way and we aren't moving" WTF I say! This turned into a rather heated talk between the two of us. His tow buddies were up ahead in the trail holding there rifles. (but they were cinching up) As much as I wanted to roost them and go on by we turned around and went on a different trail. You never know who will actually shoot you these days. I was pissed all night about it !! Still am. Mostly everyone I meet on the trail is totally cool. There is a very small percentage (that I myself run into) that are just douchebags and it doesn't matter if they are on a horse, bike, hiker or what ever.

For future reference, I can assure you that any rider who cannot control their horse as a motorcycle comes by will also be completely unable to shoot from or near their horse as well. Roost away

This

We have a steep trail thru our property. We allow hikers and mtn bikers to use it, and have worked out an arrangement with a local DS club where they can use it if they treat it gently. But we ban horses because of the damage they do and the feces left behind. One rider tried to push it. The moment I said "Excuse me, this is my property" in a very calm voice (very conscious that if I spooked the horse and he was injured I might be liable), and he immediately dialed 911 to report he was being threatened. WFT? I insisted the police come as I had the entire encounter on video.

People like him result in entire groups being painted with a broad brush.

We pass Amish buggies all the time when riding in eastern Ohio. They use aged out pacers and quarter horses for their buggies. The horses are pretty controlled and all, but still, we're careful. We always gear up to a fairly high gear so as to have minimal noise going by and will give as wide of berth as possible. I can not remember ever seeing anything negative happen.

We have come up on riders on horses and done a similar thing if they do not appear to have any issue with it. Again, being careful, wide berth, and as quiet as possible. We have coasted by, but not with engine shut off. I'm not sure, but it seems somthing going by like that could even be more disconcerting to the horse and makes it so you couldn't motor away if something went awry.

In the UK, the TRF* go to great lengths to befriend and pacify the equestrian community. Even going so far as to provide free marshalling at horseriding events. The rationale being, we want them to think of us as legitimate, responsible trail users and to not join in the walking community in trying to get us slung off byways that they ride. By and large, Horse Riders are usually very grateful when I slow down/stop for them or am clearly making a concerted effort to avoid scaring their horses. One dickhead with a loud pipe going close past them at full chat with a loud pipe can undo all that good work in an instant. I'm acutely aware of this and try and pass them as quietly/considerately as possible.

By and large, I find that horseriders and dirt riders get on pretty well and I've never been involved with, or witnessed an altercation with one on the trails**. It's rare to meet a UK trail rider who has. From what I've read in this thread it seems in the USA it's more of an issue (despite you having all that space and therefore coming into contact with them less often). Perhaps it's the cultural difference: In the states, a horse rider is typically someone who thinks he's John Wayne; perhaps a 4 legged variant of our own 'Pirates' and he thinks riding a horse automatically makes him some sort of badass. In the UK, they're typically upper middle class women/teenage girls and they tend to behave as such.

*a voluntary group that exists largely to try and fight the government taking away what few legal dirt roads and rights of way we have

**the (tarmac'd) roads are another matter entirely!

Living in an area where there are Amish with their buggies, we know there is always that possibility so we're riding with that in mind. When the roads are damp in the mornings and we're passing through the heart of Amish country (on the way to Mid Ohio races and other times) we also realise even what seems to be a "clean" road may be slippery due to the remaining road apples.

I think you will agree when you live in those kinds of areas you have to ride smart. No 100% into corners. We live with the horses because that is simply what the people in the area do. The Amish live with us and we with them. We are courteous and frequently they're waving to us too.

I'm thinking though that some communities are requiring "diapers" or a container area behind the horse to catch their droppings for later disposal. But out in the countryside, it isn't the case, so we're looking in any corner where it might be possible.

Heck, we still dealt with road apples in my home town from the local dairy. They used horse drawn carts for milk delivery up until 1972. It was kind of cool. Of course the horses didn't crap on the sidewalk or in our yards either. If I stepped in a wad of road apples I was being pretty ignorant. But I have to say it pisses me off when some ignorant SOB lets their dog crap in my yard and leave it there. I haven't had a horse owner do that yet.

The demographic here in the States for trail riders is pretty much the same.

the horses are not the problem, it's the riders.

Couple things to consider,,,

No matter how well trained a horse is,, hes still a grazing animal with his whole physical design wrapped around avoiding predators. If he cant see you with both eyes, you are BAD. When he panics its 1500 lbs of panic trying to get you out of the way... Bad thing (TM)

Anything moving at a trot or faster is the enemy.

Horses remember dangerous locations, they actually have scary memories. We had Walkers for years, smart well trained worked a lot. should be rock stable. Were used to hunt bears we could throw dead predators on their back and they would barley look. BUT one of them had for no apparent reason a fear of small things crawling on the ground (Beetles!) he would stomp rattle snakes to death, run a coyote down and kill him . Had several rodeos with that horse when a bug landed on a log near us while riding..

Our horses were originally used to work cattle in the Snake River Canyon area, 6 years after we bought them, riding down a trail my moms horse suddenly turns left down hill on a old trail and wont stop till he gets to the bottom of the canyon. Got to an old camp and stopped. Later my dad ran into the rancher we bought the horses from and told him the story. Guy busted a gut laughing, he had a herder camped there who trained that horse, and that trail was the route he took to get on top of the ridge every morning and ride the heard, that horse KNEW there was hay at the bottom of that trail...

Not saying that many horse owners are doing all they could but many could sure do better.

We switched to Quads ,, cheaper and easier to use...

Everybody resents the faster ride, Hikers hate everybody, Bikers hate horses, horses hate motor cycle mountain bikes hate motorcycles.... Endless...

Dave

I have had both, and I have found that you can hurt yourself by accident on a bike, but a horse will hurt you on purpose.
On picking-up the poo, unlike a dog, a horse doesn't stop and "assume the position" like a dog does. So if you are riding, it is very possible to not know he is going. Therefore you don't know when to stop to clean it up.

Personally I don't think horse poop stinks. YMMV

Growing up in the country, horse and cow shit all over the place was just part of life. I personally don't mind the smell nearly as bad as dog shit. Horses also tend to be on the road/trail whereas dogs will be wherever their owners (and other people) are walking.

If you live in the country and you are not prepared to deal with mud, shit or other agricultural debris in the road, perhaps you should rethink your choice of transportation.

As for horses and riders, in my experience, most horses are less spooked if you just keep doing what you were doing - i.e. pass them at a steady pace, making a steady noise. Unless you are in a very remote area where encounters between horses and motorized road users is unlikely, the riders should be in control and the horses should be adequately trained/conditioned not to react. Shame on the owner if that's not the case.

I have encountered horses many times on the very narrow roads in SW England. If it's a single track road and the horse rider doesn't pull the horse into a gateway or up against the hedge, I will pull to the side myself. Only once can I remember the rider going past with their nose in the air and not thanking me - and that was not on a Westcountry road but a major road in Surrey - and I only pulled over because at least a couple of horses were already freaking when they saw me four or five hundred feet away. Should not have been on the road IMO.

Horse diapers. Simple.

+1


The strange irony to this whole thread...

1) I ride horses competitively. On an average weekend, there are probably only <5 male riders per 400 entries.
2) On the weekends I ride the bikes in groups, there are probably only <2 women per 40 bikes.
3) Both groups worry immensely about land-loss issues

The take away here should really be: How can I energize the other folks to save the land we both love. BTW, seems like a nice way to meet a soul-mate too!