Countersteering confusion : (

Meh! This was nothing. Go ahead and post something like this down in JM and sit back and wait for the responses from the "Basement Overlords." You will learn things that you cannot unlearn as much as you might want to.

I believe I will remain here in the Penthouse ; )

Next time you "flick" a bike into a turn, notice that you have to back off on your countersteering input. That is what he is talking about. if you held the same inout you would end up lowsiding.The force on the front tire is indeed pushing the bike left in a left turn and right in a right turn, but that is not the case with the initial input which is countersteering. In a left turn, the front contact patch pushes the wheel right, then pushes left once you're leaned over. That's probably a better way to state it than you are actually turning the other direction.

Note though if you countersteer at very low speeds(some call it a dip, but it is countersteering) the wheel does turn back the other way completely. It is just at high speeds camber thrust provides a lot of the turning force so you don't see the wheel turn towards the inside of the corner nearly as much when moving slower.

Well I don't really mind it, I'm just hoping that the example will illustrate that you don't necessarily countersteer through the entire corner depending on the bike. I am definitely putting a taller rear tire on the Kawi and raising the forks in the triple clamps a bit.

Actually, Coachgeo is exactly right, and EVERY bike you have encountered requires you to turn one way to initiate the turn, then turn the other way to continue it. The "turn the other way" part is generally even less understood than the countersteering part, since it happens pretty much by itself. You countersteer to set your lean angle, then relax your grip and the front wheel naturally comes across the center and you follow around the corner. Then you countersteer again to change your lean angle (whether to tighten the turn, or to end it and become upright again), and once the desired angle is set, you allow the bike to follow its set course again.

PhilB

Argue with this guy...http://www.superbikeschool.com/machinery/no-bs-machine.php

Step 1: Read http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~fajans/pub/pdffiles/SteerBikeAJP.PDF

Step 2: and enjoy the ride

Step 3 (optional; no extra credit given): Watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzG9_8NgngI&feature=player_embedded
and have a beer.

I don't need to argue with that guy; I don't disagree with him. Nothing I said contradicts anything he said, and I certainly wasn't arguing for "body steering" without using the handlebars, which is what you linked to was all about. I'm saying (like he does) that you use countersteering to set up the turn. Then you follow the turn, and then you use countersteering again to end the turn.

Exactly! Step "e" is the one I'm talking about here.

PhilB

I think Einstein said it best, "if you can't explain it simply to your grandmother, you don't understand it."

Like I said, go out, practice, do it, feel it, learn it. Then do it a LOT more.
Then continue to do it and learn it by feeling it.

In other words, just ride a lot more and work with it.

agree on the quote. AWESOME. Had not heard that. As to learn it by "feeling it". There are those who definitely learn that way. I. M. H. Edumacated O. there are about 7 distinct learning styles and feeling it is but one of them. Again much thanx for that quote. Love it.

UNBELIEVABLE....... This thread is still going on...and on.....and on some more. GEEZ LOUISE.

What speed was it that countersteering kicked in?



Oh yeah ZERO

http://youtu.be/Ikx2sJcecnQ

I forgot, should I countersteer on my Ural ?

How often do I have to replace the counter steering fluid ?














Marc

Four times as often as I have to on my Yamaha

Physics always kick in just past walking speed!!!!!

Damn I'm sorry I started this!! Can I maybe end it by simplifying my question???

IF there is some hazard in front of me - should I simply 'steer' the way I have been all along as described in my intitial post or should I make a DELIBERATE push the opposite way I need to go?

IE - should I rely on instinct/expereince or try to deliberatly 'force' the handlebars???

It will or is already ingrained into your brains. My emergency response to an obstacle that needs to be swerved around is a strong countersteer and I do not even have to think about it.

I've even only had one hand on the bars before and pulled the right grip towards me to swerve left and it was all instantaneous with no conscious thought.

No need to "force" anything, only very lightly push the side of the handlebars where you want to go to (push right to go right, push left to go left). I've uploaded this video for you (below), practice it every time you go on a ride and after a few times it will become an instinctive move.

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/mQzhklimyFs" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="480" width="640"></iframe>

This person nailed. Push left, go left, push right, go right and look through the turn!!!!!!!! Just go to an empty parking lot ride at a fast walk and push the bars right and left and you will see what happens. simple. Really.