Go Sportsters

Ginger,

T.W.O. now TWoS, is a Georgia motorcycle tradition. No m/c trip through GA is complete without at least stopping by. It's located in Suches, GA which is a community just north of Dahlonega, on hwy 60, in north central GA. Hwy 60 is one of the best m/c roads in the east, btw. You in particular would love the area because in addition to tons of twisty blacktop, there's also miles and miles of awesome gravel forest service roads in the mountains surrounding the area. Lots of dualsporters stay there too. You could easily use TWO as a base camp and ride the area for a week and not get bored.

Damn! When you say "my neck of the woods", you mean it! That's almost my backyard! :eek1 Unfortunately, while I ride the area often because it's local, and there's a few nice roads, there's nothing particularly noteworthy to recommend other than to say, head NORTH! When I have time for it, as bad as I hate riding on the interstate, I jump on 85N to Atlanta then take 400 straight to Dahlonega. From there the world is your oyster! You can then take great backroads into NC, Blue Ridge Parkway, etc, etc. Dahlonega is my personal gateway to nirvana.

I haven't made plans for the weekend yet. I was thinkin 'bout going campin at TWO but they're calling for a 40% chance of rain up there for Sat. and Sun. Ridin in the rain's fine but I'm not crazy about camping in it... That's where the little cabins could come in handy actually. No wet sleeping bags. and no packing up wet tents. Just a nice dry cabin with dry bed and linens. I'll keep an eye on the forecast though as it's apt to change by the weekend.

But, I should be around Friday afternoon and evening either way if ya'll want to meet for a beer or somethin...

Oh, I forgot to mention... you'll be near a small town called Whitesburg. Not much there but hey have cops. Two words: SPEED TRAP. Watch your speed in Whitesburg!

Just found this little video. Doesn't show a lot of detail but it has a nice panoramic view of the surrounding area starting at about 1:20. Looks to have been filmed this past winter so it's not as nice as it could have been in the summer or fall. Interesting all the same...

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PM returned. Believe it or not I've never ridden in that area. I've worked up through that area quite a bit and know there's a lot of nice country backroads and all. In fact I've thought about riding up that way before. But since I've never seen anything in NW GA that quite compares with the N central part of the state, when I plan a longer ride I end up in the areas mentioned previously. Don't know why really... I guess I should venture out some, huh?

But you could always cut up through Chattanooga and hit the Cherohala and Deals Gap and then swing down 129 into the areas I mentioned. If you have time and depending on ya'lls itinerary.

I'm a vet so fear wouldn't keep me from going alone but it's good to know I would have less to worry about. For the most part I have found bikers take care of each other.

I'll defiantly check back when I plan a trip and see if anyone else here decided to check it out as well.

Meeting like minded people is always fun.

Randy:

Do you think the Sportster can be as comfy as the GS for long haul riding?

I've ridden my Road King in 46 states, and on 12,000 mile rides. It's been good. But I don't want to take it to the Artic Ocean, my next really big trip. Think an ADV bike is better for that, but I keep ruling each one out as I test them. So I'm almost down to building a Sportster for the trip, but wonder how it will ride for the 10,000 miles of pavement on this 12,000 mile trip.

As a rare owner of both a GS and an XL, please share your thoughts on this.

Check out RTW Doug's ADV Sportster. He's a tall fellow, and rode his Sporty all the way from Europe to Far East Russia, and back. He never whined about his bike being uncomfortable, or incapable.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

Doug will willingly do things that would make the rest of us curl up in the fetal position!

I've had the pleasure of meeting him a couple of times, and once he even helped me on the road with a mechanical problem. I think a lot of him, but don't hold him out as a prototype for my comfort.

Doug is an awesome guy and I sometimes envy his lifestyle and sense of adventure. BUT, he's also a guy that went around the world on an old Indian, among many other interesting choices of rides, trips and equipment. My hat's off to the man and his accomplishments, but I'm not sure that comfort is always at the top of his list when choosing a ride.

Other than that, I was going to suggest you read his thread on his trip to Magadan. It is one of several that illustrate what is possible with a properly set up Sportster. I'm assuming from the above that you are already familiar with Doug and the fact that he's not your typical touring rider.

Never really thought about it but I guess you're right. My eclectic taste in bikes might be a little out of the ordinary for some. But honestly, I don't tend to always do direct comparisons between my bikes since none of them were ever intended to fulfill the same role. While all of my bikes have two wheels, can be ridden, and a determined rider could probably make any of them work for multiple roles, for me, there's very little crossover. To non motorcycle people that ask why I have so many bikes I often explain it in terms of shoes... Each has a purpose. They all go on my feet, and I can walk in them all, but I wouldn't choose flip flops to run a marathon, go bowling in golf shoes, or play tennis in my leather soled dress shoes. All of my bikes satisfy a different desire in me and I enjoy each of them in their own right, for what they are and do.

For example...

When I ride the GS I tend to ride at a more aggressive pace. I enjoy it in the twisties of the N GA mountains, and while I'm no Ricky Racer squid, on a good day I can keep up a fairly brisk pace. The GS handles well and inspires confidence, even on subpar roads that would upset some other bikes.

See any chicken strips on these Anakee III's?

Front:



Rear:



At the same time it carries a ton of gear easily, is reasonably comfortable, does two up well and is just very competent as my do-it-all machine.

I've been riding my GS a lot more over the last few months. This past weekend I finally blew the cobwebs off the Sportster and took a short ride of around 150 miles on Sunday afternoon. I thoroughly enjoyed it! But in a different way... It was just a Sunday afternoon, sunny day ride around my local area just to get out and blow the cobwebs out of my brain. Other than a couple of short blasts up through the gears just for fun, I spent the vast majority of the ride at 55-60mph or less. It was a relaxing, smell the roses type of ride and it was great! If I'd done the exact same route and pace on the GS I'd have probably been bored to tears.

Compare the two? Wow! That's difficult for me. I wouldn't know where to begin actually. And then there's the fact that if I do share my thoughts I'm sure to piss someone off. If I sat down and broke it down piece by piece I'm sure I could write a long boring comparison but in a nutshell...

A few thoughts from yesterday... Remember, it was the first time I'd been on the Sporty after a good number of miles on the GS...

Engine:

When I first fired it up in the garage it IMMEDIATELY leapt to life and settled into an idle. That was after sitting for months through the winter. Stale gas and all... Connected to that is the SOUND! I do love the sound of the Sportster. That engine moves me! And I mean in more ways than just down the road. The sensations, the sounds, and the power/torque curves. Sure, it could always use "more" but it is a surprisingly flexible and usable power plant that is VERY easy to use.

The GS by contrast is an annoying, and boring, blatting sound. I tried a louder Two Bros. exhaust on it once years ago and HATED the way it sounded. It's relatively quiet now. And rather dull. No passion inspired there. But it moves down the road just fine and gets the job done with no fanfare.

The Sportster mill vibrates like a paint shaker at an idle but is amazingly smooth just off idle and at hwy speeds. It's really surprising and a very pleasant ride. The GS is mildly buzzy by comparison, but never really annoying. The Sportster mill is FUN. The GS mill is an appliance.

Suspension:

While I have done mild upgrades to my Sportster's suspension, and could be vastly improved with premium shocks like Ohlins, IMHO there's no way in hell that it'll ever compare with the GS in road compliance, or control, over even mildly rough pavement. I noticed that immediately yesterday while going over frost heaves/expansion joints/cracks in otherwise "ok" pavement. I felt bumps and ripples that I don't even notice on the GS. The rougher the pavement, the more pronounced this becomes. I'm sure if you completely replaced the front end with premium cartridge forks, along with the $$$ upper end Ohlins in the rear it would work wonders. But, you're still limited by the twin shock swingarm design, limited travel and the overall chassis layout of the Sportster. Yeah, there are workarounds for that, but there are usually trade-offs in those too. The GS was designed from the ground up for a specific task. One completely different from the Sportster designer's intent for their machine. The telelever/paralever suspension of the GS, while not being perfect and having some weakness, does work very well, IMO.

"Comfort"

Now to the meat of your question. And probably the most difficult to address....

Ergonomics is a complex science with a huge number of variables. Everyone's body type is different. And everyone has their own idea of what they find comfortable.

REMEMBER, THIS IS MY INTERPRETATION.



There really is no right or wrong except for you as the individual.

When I first got underway on the Sportster yesterday the first thing that struck me was the riding position. I'm not a tall or big guy and I felt a little "folded up". I remember thinking, "I don't remember this". "Hmmm, guess I got used to it before." And that seems to be true. In general I think it was more of a direct comparison sort of thing, and that made it stand out in the beginning. As the day went along though I seemed to become less acutely aware of this. And by the end of the day I can't say I felt any more discomfort on any part of my body than I would have had I been riding the GS. But still, that more cramped, "folded" position isn't as open and roomy feeling as the GS. That may present issues on really long rides that I haven't experienced yet. I have put some seriously long days on the GS. I think I may have put a longest ride of around 300 miles on the Sportster. Maybe a bit over, but still significantly shorter than on the GS. With that limited experience though, I haven't ran up against a really noticeable comfort "wall" on the Sportster.

IMO, the ADV tourer class, in general, has the basic layout down pat. The "feet under ass" riding position tends to rotate the hips in such a way that works for me. I'm not talking about real rearsets like found on sport bikes with high, right under your ass, rear set pegs. Just the foot position like on a GS or similar. The angle also tends to place more weight on the meat of your thighs, which is better able to hold the weight, as opposed to the tailbone/ass area where the cruiser riding position tends to place the weight. Another important aspect is that the ADV position makes it easy to shift your weight, which not only increases control, but also allows you to stand on the pegs to allow your legs to absorb big hits rather than being stranded in the seat when you see a big bump or pothole coming. There's really just too many advantages, so I'll just say that I vastly prefer the more ADV tourer oriented riding position. And I say all of this in comparison to my mid mount pegs. I absolutely HATE forward controls. Don't even get me started on that subject...

SOOOOO.... The short answer to your comfort question would be....

Stock to stock? NO fuckin' way!

With well thought out mods to a Sportster? The best I can say is, it depends. For some riders, sure. For some others, maybe not. It depends on YOUR idea of comfort, your body type, specific ailments, etc....

For me, with my likes and preferences, I think that if I had the time and funds to set up a Sportster to my liking, I could very probably build a bike that would satisfy my needs as a do-it-all machine. The engine alone would be on the PLUS side of the balance sheet when I started weighing out the pros and cons of the various compromises I'd be making along the way.

Everything in bikedom is a compromise....

Take seat height for example. As I mentioned, I'm not a big guy. But, I've never had any trouble with the GS. In fact, I have a 30" inseam, and yet I also own a KTM 640 LC4 with a 37" seat height. :eek1 I've never given seat height a lot of thought, in other words. BUT, with that said, since owning and riding my Sportster I have learned to appreciate the lower seat. But then again, when I jump on the GS I don't give it a lot of thought either.

Take the low seat of the Sportster or take the better (for me) peg position and ground clearance of the GS, but you can't really have both.

Ok, so I'm sorry this turned out to be so long and boring, and still not go ANYWHERE! Just a few of my thoughts...

In the end, I'm afraid that none of my personal likes can really help you find a bike that will work best for you, your body, your riding style, etc...

And then there's the fact that your previous touring machine is a huge road going lounge chair. I wouldn't even begin to be able to make any sort of comparisons between it and the other machines discussed. Totally different animals.

Good luck finding the "right" bike for you and your upcoming trip. As you know, there's a lot to consider...

To everyone else....


Yes, my flame suit is on... But remember, none of the above was intended to spark debate. I was simply answering boatpuller's questions as best I could. From my perspective as a guy that has both machines. Feel free to dispute anything I've said, or give your thoughts as it pertains to you, but don't be offended if I don't respond. These are only my opinions and what I've discovered works well for ME over the last 40ish years of riding...

Just wanted to add something to the above....

When I speak of "miles" the term isn't necessarily indicative of the length of my rides. Take a Iron Butt rider, or just the typical interstate tourer for example. Setting the cruise on 80 or 90 and clicking off the miles is one thing. But that's quite a bit different from my form of riding. Almost all of my riding is two lane backroads. As many as possible being of the twisty variety. If I do a 600+ mile day, depending on the ride, it could mean 12-14 hours of fun. Maybe more. Even 300 miles is apt to be a full day out and about on the bike, with various stops along the way.

Different forms of riding makes direct comfort and fatigue comparisons difficult.

Randy, I appreciate your information, and the limitations of different people and different riding styles. My measure of comfort should have been limited to all day long iron butt style riding, which you explained you don't do. Questions like how easily the Sportster holds the road in strong cross winds vs. the GS. I think they weigh similar, but BMW should have better aerodynamics, as Sportsters have none. Riding position is subjective as you said, and I can work with that.

If only I could tolerate the boxer buzz, than we wouldn't even be having this conversation. But that's not the case.

Randy
Very well put on all counts. I once owned a r1200sr. I could ride it at 90mph one handed while drinking a cup of coffee. It was as comfortable as a lazy boy recliner. There was zero buffeting. Had room galore for storing stuff. In the end, it was also quite boring. If you were going to slab cross country I would recommend this bike. However, I get one or 2 longish trips a year. The remainder of the time is short trips to work with an occasional 200 mile Saturday lunch ride. The sportster puts a grin on my face even if I'm just taking a 5 minute trip to the store. This Saturday, I'm headed out for 1200 miles on a 2010 48'. We'll see....

Yeah, I'd think that the weights are close enough. But, I will say that while the GS's weight goes away on the road, it feels MUCH heavier at a stop or just pushing it around. The CG is much higher, and when combined with the tall seat, it makes it feel much more cumbersome when using your feet to move around, as in paddling around at a snail's pace. Maneuvering the Sportster around in the garage is far easier than the GS. At speed the GS feels much lighter, more flickable, and agile whereas the Sportster is heavier steering and slower in transitions. At the same time, the GS feels plenty stable and planted and never nervous or twitchy. Of course, these traits are more a function of chassis and suspension design, geometry, and tires than a factor of pure weight.

As far as resistance to winds... I'm not a good source for that info because, with the exception of gust fronts and strong winds associated with thunderstorms, I don't ride in areas with strong sustained winds like those found out west. In the SE where I ride, with all the trees, hills and such, we don't have the flat wide open spaces that create those conditions. I would think that total "sail area" would be a big part of the equation though. I know that the worst bike I own, as far as cross winds are concerned, is my '93 Ducati 900SS. With it's large slab sided fairing panels you feel winds that you probably wouldn't even notice on a lot of other bikes. Just off the top of my head I would think that a Sportster may fare better in strong cross winds due to it's lower profile and CG, but that's just a guess really.

I've discovered that vibration is another of those subjective bike things. Spend some time aboard my KTM and I GUARANTEE that you won't even notice the "boxer buzz". But seriously, while I know that boxers do have that secondary rocking couple that creates the infamous "boxer buzz" I've never found it to be of a magnitude or frequency that was objectionable to me. A well tuned GS can be pretty smooth. In fact, I've ridden some inline 4s that I hated due to the buzziness.

Have you looked at an Ulysses? Combining the HD engine, with the ADV ergos, and a decent chassis would have probably been a bike I would have enjoyed a LOT. Too bad The Motor COmpany pulled the plug on the Buell brand...

Randy;

I have to agree with 100% with your reply to Boatpuller about the XL/GS comparison.

I too own a GS (98 1100, stock seats, Aeroflow shield, Yacugar shocks front and rear). and an 07 XL1200R. (HD 1/4 fairing, Sundowner seat, back rest, Superbrace, and Intiminators Both bikes are great but very different. Each bike could do what ever I need but one is better suited to a task and that makes it interesting.

Both bikes are 5 speeds. Run them in their sweet spots (every bike has them) and are very enjoyable. HD V-twin is a very fun motor to ride and listen to at idle.

GS is a pack mule that handles so well. Wife and I hopped on Sunday AM to head out to Knoxville IA to catch the AMA 1/2 mile GNC race, about 420 mile round trip back home at 9:20 PM.

No way we could have done that two up on the sporty at our age.

Agree that the Buell brand got a bad deal. Yes, I've tried test riding a Ulysses, and oddly enough, I've never wanted to give a motorcycle back to the dealer so fast. Did not expect that at all. Not at all. At the same dealer they had a hot rodded chopped 883 they wanted me to try to see how much power the 883's had (which really made no sense, but who am I to turn down a test ride on a motorcycle?) and I loved it! Didn't want to give it back.

Was there something wrong with that particular Ulysses? maybe, but nothing I could id. It did have an aftermarket oversized windshield angled right at my face shield, but otherwise seemed pretty stock.

In visiting with them afterward, I learned the Buell motor didn't really share that much with the Sportster motor, in spite of common belief. The are mostly different engines. And I'm not talking about the Rotax one found in street bikes.

KTM: I own a 525, and the thumper's vibrations don't bother me. I've tested a 990, and was pleased with it's 75 MPH vibration behavior. I could live with that. Didn't like it's lack of low end torque. Am very interested in the 1190 Adventure, but it's too new/expensive/electrically unproven for me to take to AK where surely I'm going to drop it. For a bike I know I'm going to crash, would like to keep under 5 figures.

Finally, Thanks again for your comparing the GS to the XL, with the weight, COG, rider imput requirements, etc. It's helpful.

The Buell motors actually ARE very similar to the Sportster motors. In fact, if you were willing to spend the dough, you can take a stock 1200 Sporty and turn the motor into a Buell motor.

Heads, valves, pistons, arms, flywheel, air intake, fuel map.

Not QUITE the whole thing, but you'd be so close as to make no difference.

/\ this is pretty much spot on.
Buell used a hodge-podge of Sportster parts from different years. 98% of Buell engine parts can be bought through any H-D dealer, IF you know the right year sportster it was used on.

If I had the money, I would have bought a couple of Buells when H-D shut Buell down.
They were moving them at dirt cheep prices.

Well it wouldn't be the first time a dealer provided wrong technical information.

What significant issues do you think are responsible for that conclusion? Bad suspension on the XL, bad ergonomics, worse wind protection even with the windshield, or something else altogether? (420 miles on the Road King is no big deal for me; I've done over twice that for a hamburger - more than once.)

I'm asking these questions because if there is a deal-breaker I can learn about before spending lots of time, effort, energy, and money, that is certainly better. I'd hate to build a sportster into an ADV bike for a 12,000 mile trip, only to discover it's no more comfortable than the factory ADV bikes I've ruled out up to this point. Thanks.