Advice Needed on some old twins

I am looking at buying a 70s Triumph, BSA and possibly Norton. I had my run with a 77 BMW r100s and loved the bike but had to bring it back from the dead which was fun but very costly, but may consider another. It was great to easily attain parts for it.

Basically I am looking to get into one of those bikes for something different and cool. Bike does not need to be 100% perfect but I don't want to have to start from scratch like the beemer.

What would I be getting into as far as reliability and maintenance costs with a BSA, Norton or Triumph?

Cheers

Asking how reliable is a 1970s British bike is a real how long is a piece of string question, some can do tens of thousands of miles with nothing more than routine servicing and others can be nothing but trouble, this applies across all three marques you mention.

Certainly here in the UK a Triumph is the cheapest place to start and with about 75% of their production going to the US I expect it is the same there as well with Both Nortons and BSAs of the same period fetching a higher price.

Norton possibly have the best spares back up with 100% for some models still being made, you can actually buy a new bike built from parts here for a price. Most parts for Triumphs are still available as well and I expect the same can be said for the later BSA twins with many modifications available to sort out inherent problems the factory never dealt with.

Owning both a Triumph and BMW twins I can say the Brit is a more pleasing bike to ride on a sunny afternoon but it will require more maintenance than the BMW and the cost of parts is rising but they are still easier to find and cheaper than those of Japanese bikes of the same vintage.

I don't know if you were around in the 70s, but I was, so I'll say don't go British.

I came from a British bike background and was pretty one-eyed about them. My first BMW was a revelation - reliable, smooth, and didn't need continual fettling. It also could handle long trips at speed with nothing falling off.

You can make a '70s British bike reliable, but by the time you've finished it's not cheap.

If all you want is a bike for fiddling with, doing short trips to the cafe, and generally posing on, then a '70s British bike will be ok.

If I wanted a British bike I'd go to the '50s before their quality control became so dire and before they started trying to extract unreasonable amounts of power out of 1930s designs.

There is one exception - Velocette. Great bikes that were well built.

Well.. I have 2 triumphs and a Norton. All 3 have been extremely reliable. Why?????? because they were all low mile survivors and had not been 'improved' by previous owners. They all still have their original Amal carbs and points. That is important. Those bikes were designed that way and work amazingly well as such. As a matter of fact I had the Norton out this last weekend for my weekly vintage ride, first time it had been out in 3 months. I went through the normal Norton starting ritual and it started first kick and settled into an idle.

IMO, the BEST thing you can do is buy the best quality survivor bike to begin with then fix what needs fixin. Trying to buy a box o bits will end up with a bike that costs so much more. And keep it stock. there is NOTHING at all wrong with the points, advancer, and amals. Just make sure you lube the advancer regularly and retrofit some parts I the amals with some of the new amal premier parts, ie floats and slides. I only did the slides and my bikes idle and run perfectly.

As for which bike is best??? The Triumph start easier since they are just 650's and the kickstart leverage is better than the Norton. But.....anything over 60 on the road leads to a lot of vibration etc. So they are best on 2 lane backroads and around town.

The Norton however is a grand highway cruiser. it can easily do 70 to 75 and is so smooth and composed you will be amazed that it's a 40+ year old brit bike. But....it is more difficult to start. You have to ease the engine up to TDC with the kicker, then give a tickle of the carbs, turn on the switch, and give her the boot. If you don't get it to TDC you will have a hard time. That motor has so much compression on those big pistons that that kicker just stops. I have to put mine on the center stand to start. But start it does, always, within a couple kicks.

They both handle great, and the drum Triumph brakes can be adjusted properly and work just great. The Norton disk also can be kept stock and made to work very good for 70's brakes or mod the MC and improve it even more.

I love mine and would be hard pressed to pick a favorite.

73 Norton 850, purchased with 4200 miles, found in a barn, $3500 + $1000 to get running. All original.



71 Triumph Trophy, barn find, 10k miles, traded for a stained glass window I got for free, $500 to fix up, all original



70 Triumph Tiger, a display piece with cracked primary, 4800 miles, $2500 purchase and $700 to get running, all original.

Parts seem to be much cheaper than airhead parts, but then most seem to be pattern, of varying quality.

British bikes seem to expect that parts will not always fit right the first time out and may well need fettling to fit.

Whatever you chose, find a good reliable parts supplier, I use Andover Norton and RGM for my Commando

Avoid early Commandos with fiberglass tanks, unless you price in replacement of the tank with a steel or alloy one. Ethanol eats Fibreglass

If you like the looks, sound, and feel, may I suggest Triumph Lite, AKA, Kaw W650?

Had Triumphs when they weren't vintage. Always something falling off, breaking, electrical problems. I love the restored bikes, but I just can't/don't want to deal with the problems anymore.

The Kaw W650 is everything you ever liked about Brit bikes, but with no problems. It's even got a kick starter (and E button of course).

Maybe heresy here, but might be worth a look.

Re: your title, "old twins". They're nice, but like women, sometimes a younger pair is more attractive.

A 1970's Yamaha XS650 is a Fun and reliable alternative.

The "standard" model built until 1978 is what you want.

My wife has a 1977 and I have a 1972 XS650.

I like the 1972 because it has a compression release like dirt bikes for starting.

We both had a 1973 BMW R75/5.

The cost of parts for the XS650 will make you !!!!

The XS650 Forum is Very Helpful and knowledgeable!! ....Al

I can say that in the 12 years I've owned my Trophy, 3 years on the Tiger, and 6 years on the Commando I've had exactly 0 times they have failed to start and perform as expected.

Even with a low battery on the Trophy. that is the beauty of points. she still started right off even if the horn didn't make but a chirp.

I had 1 bolt fall off the commando after about 3 months, center stand bolt, and that might have been my fault. who knows. I replaced it and no other problems.

As for actual needed repairs. The assimilator on the commando quit (that runs the charging light) so I replaced that. I also had to put a new throttle cable on the Trophy. That was it. Neither of those left me stranded and parts were had within a day.

The ONLY modification made to the Triumphs that deviate from stock was to retrofit a Norton oil filter on the return lines of both. That should guarantee I won't have to touch the motors in my life time.

I can get parts for the brits easier, faster, and cheaper than everything but my Harleys.

Granted I only put just under 1k miles a year on them, but other than oil changes and replacing 1 battery. That is IT.

How good they treat you is all contingent on just how good you are at getting them back on the road. If you are a good, thorough, and detailed oriented mechanic you will be rewarded with years of riding pleasure.

If you have parts falling off, then you are running them beyond their comfort zone (remember my comment on the Triumphs vibrating more past 60). If you 'listen to and feel' the feedback from the bike, you know where they like to run. Keep them in that zone and you will be rewarded.

If it's an old brit you want, get one and do it right. If you just settle for some jap copy you will always wonder every time you see a classic roll by.

If you don't ride your British bike far or fast, and do lots of maintenance, then I suppose it will be "reliable". It also helps if you live in a cool climate. Adding a decent oil filter and an oil cooler is a big help.

BTW I should have exempted the 850 Norton - it was a shame it came too late to save the company because the Commandos were great bikes when they weren't exploding trying to keep up with Japanese bikes.

No doubt the classics are beautiful with lots of panache. I loved my Triumph when it ran, but I could never be sure it would start. One day you do the starting drill, and it started first kick. Next day, do the exact same thing, and kick for 20 minutes without starting. Come back 1/2 hour later, and it started on first kick. It was my only transportation at the time, and eventually I needed something more reliable after 14 years with it.

I ride my W as an everyday bike, and put 3-4K on a year. Only so little because I have another bike I also ride, and NE winters with snow.

Problems so far- 0, nada, nothing.

I had a 69 or 70? BSA 650 that I got in 1984 from a friend that owed me some money. (He gave me the bike instead.)

He put over $3500 (1982 money) into it to make it a go-fast bobber. It was bored and stroked to a 750, or 850.

I had it over 145 mph (indicated, no GPS then), and still had a lot of throttle left, but it was a bobber, so no front brake, and I pussied out!

Back then in the pre-internet days, BSA was almost impossible to find parts for, and I had to have everything either custom made, or rigged.

It was a great bike though. I had to sell it in 1991, and the guy I sold it to probably has never even started it. ( I think he was afraid of it.)

I could probably get it back from him, but after all these years of being stored outside, I think it would be more hassle than it's worth.

.

If you have an itch for British then nothing else going to scratch it. I had it, went through a lot of crap and settled for keeps on my B33 Beeza and Triumph T150V. These bikes are now sorted and I will not part with them. I will however not buy any more Brits due to the price of cottage industry spares which are now expensive. The beauty of say BMW (I have an R100) and Moto Guzzi ( I have an Ambassador - my favourite of all) is that the spares fit and work albeit usually costly. My opinion, go for a late sixties single carb Trophy or even a Bonneville. Bags of charm, cool and you can still more or less get spares for them at your local corner shop.
Most important though buy something you intend to keep, fix it right and don't expect to make a fast buck. It rarely happens these days.
Rgds,
Dave.

I have a 72 Commando Roadster with 30k mls on the clock, PO says it was rebuilt in the early 90's. I said to the seller that I would have it collected. He said why buy it if you don't think it can make it home.
I flew down to collect it and rode it home the 800 kms.
I've done a couple of 800 km weekends on it and it runs fine.
Its not concours which I prefer these days so makes a good regular rider.
I paid what was at the time top dollar but I've had it 3 years and no major issues, unlike my mate who got a restored but not used one and he had no end of grief with minor stuff, got fed up and sold it.

It depends if you want to ride it or look at it. I love the aesthetics of 70's British bikes, but they were never designed for the endless highway speed droning that so much of North American riding involves, and don't hold up well under those conditions. For a trip to the coffee shop to look cool (a dubious quality at the best of times) and a few hundred miles a year - sure, but for regular use and real miles - not.

You'd be better off with another early Beemer, a Guzzi (of course), or something early and Japanese - something you could actually use.

But if its for the joy of restoration - whatever you choose will be the right choice.

Nick

For Brit stuff, you might give a call (or visit) to Gregg at Toymakers Cafe, in Falls Village, CT.
I got the $.25 tour of his shop the other day when we rode out for lunch with he and Annie...
He told me he's cut down from 178 british bikes to a paltry 75...

https://plus.google.com/106210917158897105288/about?gl=us&hl=en

His daily rider is a K100....
He and Annie serve the best waffles in the NE!

I have had a number of Triumphs over the years, and I would avoid the 500 motors, but the rest of them were ok.
The later ones (1979) were very reliable for me, I did a 9000 mile round the US on one with only a flat front tire.
And that was after years of abuse.

Over the 5 years and 50,000 miles that I had the bike, it needed a key switch, a few rear speedo drives, and the usual brake/chain/tire stuff.

The older the bikes, the more looking after they needed, the 79 had modern carbs NOT bolted to the head, electronic ignition, disk brakes.

I pondered the same..
Never jumped at an early Brit bike due to the good ones costing more than I wanted and secondly, well I never did.
My oldest bike was a 78 BMW, and while I did like it, it was the one that cost me the most down time..
So I love the Brit bike looks, riding season here is short and fettling is meant for winter. I opted for a Hinckley Bonnie. Its turn key all the time (and with 2 under fives living here... time to ride is few and far between)
That said, one day Id love a 68 BSA or Triumph...
Maybe thats an option

So you've tried the bacon waffles obviously.

Fun place, combination parts place and diner. I try to get up there once or twice a month.

I don't know, one of my favorite Triumphs ever was a '70 Daytona I converted to single-carb; it vibrated less than my 650's, was easy to start and a lot of fun to ride, within it's limits. For leisurely tooling around on back-roads it was hard to beat.
The best everyday rider was a '78 Bonneville - disc brakes, 5-speeds and enough power to keep up on the interstate if it had to.

Brit bikes can be super reliable if you treat them OK.

Fitment of parts is often hit & miss - even with genuine stuff, but it is all easy to maintain & repair.... you'll bond with it quicker

The BMW is a well engineered bike (as you know) but in comparison to a Triumph, BMW is rather bland...... so it depends what you're after. My late 60's Triumph 650 is great - starts first kick 99% of the time, puts a big smile on my face - but gets a bit tiresome on long/fast runs.

Pay your money & take your choice.