I have watched all but one of the DVD's of http://burrohas3wheels.com/. I'm thinking of a ride to Alaska after I retire in 4 or 5 years and like the idea of the stability of the 3rd wheel on the Haul Road. He is riding a 750 Ural. I have a 1980 R65 with 25K miles. I understand I won't have a driven sidecar wheel by adding a Ural sidecar to my bike but I will have more stability and I will be able to carry whatever I take lower in the sidecar and maybe have a more uniformily distributed load. What are other considerations?
The biggest consideration is fitting an appropriate sidecar in a manner that is safe, and aligning it properly. Then take a class on piloting a rig and practice, practice, practice!!! Go here for some homework: http://www.dauntlessmotors.com/
First, let me point to www.sidecar.com R65 / Ural; You will need a subframe for ANY post 1968 BMW. You will need lower gearing unless you put a bigger engine in there (at least a 900), especially because that is a heavy SC. You will probably want bigger springs, too. Wider bars. Might need to replace the steering bearings.
An R65 will make a nice docile rig. You will need a subframe as the BMW frame is too light on it's own and will flex with a sidecar atttached. It will be a little gutless, comparable to a KLR or Ural 650 rig. Using a lighter sidecar, such as a Velorex or a Sputnik will help some.
I had my velorex attached to a 83 R65 using dauntless connections. Worked perfect. No issues. I am now about 1-2 weeks away from attaching an 81 r65 to it. I so excited.
Fitting a Ural sidecar to an R65 should just about manage to remove any last vestige of performance that the bike originally had.
This is a friends R65 with a Watsonian chair attached.There is a bar going from the rear shock mount to the steering head to take the top links,and a subframe underneath tieing both lower frame rails to the lower mounts.It has an R80 engine fitted,taking care of any power problems.Leading link forks too of course.
I put 85K on an R65, and I've had sidecars for... since around '76. If that ride to Alaska looks like highway 50 through Kansas, you can do it. Otherwise, you'll get very creative figuring out how to avoid mountains, hills, cities like San Francisco and Seattle- anything with an incline.
Just guessing, but the r65 is short stroke revvy little thing. Your better off with something with a little more torque.
The Ural has lower gearing. That's a big reason I put a newer, biggern engine in my /2 frame- it's easier to do that than to install sidecar gearing. From what I understand, it's kind of a lost art and few shops want to attempt it because all the shimming takes so much trial and error. An old 600 will haul around a sidecar all day with the proper gearing. (plus the frames were SC ready from the factory)
I had a 1974 R90 with a Velorex attached without a subframe but I used both frame tubes for three of the mounts. Just flat stock U-bolted across with an eyebolt for the clevis strut. The fouth mount was on a plate steel piece that was bolted to the rear seat subframe and to the main frame. I put 240,000 mile on that rig, went to Alaska twice, down through Mexico, across Labrador and all over Canada and the U. S. Never had a problem with the mounts. Did break 3 of the clevis bolts, however.
I had a heavy Russian sidecar on an old R75/5 Airhead and never needed a sub-frame, so I am sure the damn near identical R65 frame would do ok. They are the same main frame as the bigger twins, just shorter swingarm, forks and shocks. Steering was really heavy though, so I would go for a leading link front end made to give proper sidecar geometry and springing. My R75/5 dragged that chair, me, the missus and 7year old son up and down the Rocky mountains all the way from Missoula Montana to Durango Colorado and back on one trip. Yes it was down to second gear in the four-speed box to get over some passes but it cruised along ok. I had a lower ratio rear end from a 600 in it. So I reckon the R65 would pull a sidehack ok. I had a solo R65 and it seemed faster thanthe old R75. I would look for one of those light little Indian sidecars they put on the Indian Enfields, that look like an old bullet nose Steib.
maybe so, but I sure wouldn't recommend it. My riding buddy had an R75/5 set up that way and I could see the frame flex as he cornered ahead of me. The rear wheel would take a separate line and twist in a hard corner. Problem was solved with a subframe and bracing through the battery box(moved the battery to thesidecar). I had a Dnepr with a R65 motor. Performance was directly comparable to another friends Dnepr. Barely adequate. It was improved considerably by replacing the lump with one from a R100. My experience suggests that for long distance travelling you'd want an R80 or larger and a subframe is desirable for handling and to prevent frame damage, but of course, YMMV
The amount of power means feck all regarding sidecar compatibility. A 1000 hp engine developing naff all torque below the upper rev range would be totally unsuitable for sidecar use too. The Ural was designed to haul a chair from day one. The 650 Ural has even less power than the 750 (around 37 hp) but it stll manages well with three people and campoing gear on it. It`s WHERE the power is and how much torque there is....associated with where the torque is in relationship to the power that matters. Gearing also plays a major part ...not just the bottom and top gearing but the spacing between the gears.
Lots of good and bad advise here. Good luck, what ever you do. IMHO, go ahead and hack the R65, just do it right. A Dauntless subframe is a good start. A lighter hack, like a Velorex, Sputnik, Spirit America, etc... I think would be better than a Ural or Dnepr. Leading links ($$$) or other steering modification would be very much appreciated on a long tour. A lower ratio final drive from an R50/5 should fit, and give you more torque. I have a Dnepr on my R75/5, with an R50 final drive, and a sidecar triple tree set from Perry Bushong in Fort Worth TX that reduces trail, uses stock forks, and makes steering a LOT easier than the stock triple trees. I've never owned a Velorex, but I hear that the mounts,frame, suspension is not very robust. This is all fixable though. I would plan ahead, and get started on your sidecar project as soon as possible, so you have plenty of time to make modifiction and learn its peculiarities. Side Car Talk: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/SCT is a good place to get info, opinions, advice on setup, etc...anything sidecar related.
A well built subframe adds strength to the hookup but it also allows the mounts to be placed to provide easy adjustment of the rig. The main point of concern on many bikes (airheads included) is if the stock bike frame is strong enough. Many have run with no subframe as noted here but there have also been frame failures reported . Is it worth taking the chance? On the airheads the placement of the upper rear mount to get good support and triangulation is a concern. The bolt on seat frame area is not a good place to put a mount. With a subframe this can be alleviated pretty easy. Yes, some have run the upper rear mount forward at the top to the main frame and this is sufficient but not always the best. Dauntless makes a decent subframe and I like to think we make a good one also. I am not promoting subframes just because we fabricate them. Subframes can ad a lot of peace of mind and also make setting up and adjusting a sidecar rig a lot easier.
gday from australia, just a thought but i had anr65 with an hrd chair on it and it had really well engineered mounts by a fellow called ron hurdis. there was no sub frame required but the mounts all linked accross the frame, one below the steering headat the brace that is already on the frame, one thatutilised both the motor mounting bolts, one that tied into the rear of the main frame loops where the subframe bolts on and one in the area of the foot peg/pillion peg mount. i still have these mounts on an 81 r100 frame, so i may be able to draw diagrams of them and post them to you if you need them. bear in mind thataussie roads beat the daylights out of machinery and i havent heard of a failure yet. by the way,if you dont have a steering damper on your r65 you will definately need muscles on your muscles to steer it at any speed.
