Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki & Kawasaki - Listen Up, Please...

The wr450f weighs the same as a 450exc.

Guys, please keep it civil and about the bikes in this forum.

No one wants to read posts with f-bombs and insults here in the Thumpers forum.

If you can't manage to be civil and follow the forum rules, I can help.

Thanks
CA Stu
Thumpers Mod

PS You want to talk trash on each other? Take it to Jo Momma and go nuts.

GB , what area you in?

Different kind of technical down there. No rock bashing, no crazy several hundred foot drop offs or nightmare steep trails covered with softball size rocks. Same tight trees through. Did I mention no rocks?

But the trails down there are damn hard for sure. Axle deep energy sapping sand and mud full of roots and stumps, bushes that bite and red clay that is as slick as greased ice when wet.

Down south brush, briars and trees rather than rocks tear you up and zero traction wears out rather than terrifying drop offs and impossible climbs. And ditches. And mud. And ......

I have had the misfortune of experiencing both types. All I can say for Florida is it usually didn't hurt as bad when I crashed. Unless it was into a tree or yucca bush. Thought I would bleed to death from one of those yuccas.

My apologies to the true riders in Florida. But you have to admit, when you think of Florida, you think....flat.

I lived in Miami also . Coral rock and green clay. When the clay is wet and churned up its mush , when its packed and wet its like ice , but when its dry its like powder .

Saw grass, spartina grass and yucca plants. All good stuff. But I forgot to mention quick sand. Just like the cheesy B movies.




To be honest, I don't know which kicks my ass worse. The exhausting hell of coastal riding or the endless pounding up here in rocks and mountains. But I have had road rash from crashing on the beach and from crashing on rocks. So I have equal opportunity scars.

One of the guys in that pic got thrown down in a sugar sand swamp and broke a couple of ribs on a stump. Sand usually hurts a lot less in a crash. But what is in the sand .... not so much. Same guy broke his ankle in the same swamp a couple of years ago in one of those bottomless log skidder ruts at like zero miles per hour.

The flip side is a flat lander like me goes to the mountains the frist time and tries turning with the foot out fan the clutch "style" learned down south in sand. That was a painful lesson about rocks and toes. I have learned to switch back and forth between riding styles when I haul the bike back to the SC Sea Islands.

I can ride rocks now. No veteran of like ten Shenandoah 500's is going to be shy about rocks. But I am still a flat lander at heart. Still not sure which is harder on the bike though: rock rash or salt mud.

I think the point is, a WR450 R wouldn't.

CRF250R - 227 lbs
CRF250X - 254 = 227+27
CRF250L - 320 = 254+66

YZ250F - 227
WR250F - 254 = 227+27
WR250R - 295 = 254+41

YZ450F - 245
WR450F - 273 = 245+28
WR450R - Not under 300. No way no how.

Buying used is the much smarter financial move.....if you have the ability to save, or already have the cash, and have a decent knowledge of machines and fair pricing, you can get a great bike in great shape for a fraction of new. Even cheaper if you're a savvy buyer Not to mention avoiding the depreciation hit of new

I do feel bad for the guys who have to finance and buy new, or just want brand new, because bike prices are going nothing but up.
But somebodies gotta take one for the team to get these used bikes on the market

Nicely done. Thank you. We need more facts around here and less hysteria.

WRFs & CRFXs also fall in to that "hard enduro" subcategory. All of these bikes (EXCs, XCWs, TEs, WRFs & CRFXs) are excellent and versatile, but their missions and capabilities are all more narrowly focused than the bike that is proposed in the original post of this thread.

All of these bikes have Ti valves (vs steel) that require frequent valve adjustments and wear out much faster than steel valves. Sure, Kibblewhite Performance can replace your Ti valves for steel ones, but it's an expensive proposition that requires removal of the top end, shipping the top end to Kibblewhite and reinstalling it. It's not something that most buyers are willing to do.

All of these bikes also have very little oil capacity - barely more than 1 qt. They all require very frequent oil changes even in non-race applications. Yes, you can add an oil cooler that can increase you oil capacity closer to 2 qts, but this is an expensive proposition that most buyers would not be willing to do.

All of these bikes have minimal electrical output - barely enough to add a GPS. Baja Designs and others have kits to increase electrical output, but this is an expensive proposition that most buyers would not be willing to do.

With all of this said, I don't feel that these bikes are as relevant to this thread / discussion as so many of you do. At the end of the day, I'm talking about a modern, mid-size dualsport that is capable of everything from light single track to long haul RTW travel. Again, these are all excellent bikes, but they are more narrowly focused than the more "universal" bike that is the intended subject of this thread.

Here's the original post

What i find interesting is how closely my thirteen year old LC4E matches that list. I have always found the six speed fetish here in Thumpers silly and I am perfectly happy with a well tuned carb. So those two are irrelevent to me. Otherwise I am riding a bike that meets every criteria on the list except horsepower which it exceeds by quite a lot.

My old bike weighs 325 pounds with a sweet aftermarket seat, 18l fuel tank, full DOT kit, two mirrors, centerstand, stout skid plate, full wrap hand guards, extensive tool kit, tire iron, patch kit, spare shifter and three gallons of gas on the bike. The only thing not stock, besides the seat, is the muffler which is the functional equivalent of an FMF Q series.

All of which begs the question: why can't anybody else do that now? The answer is money. This bike cost $7000 when Bill Clinton was still President. :eek1