NHSTA Opens Investigation into BMW Final Drive Failures

Ok, ride to Deadhorse and take a hop over to Barrow. What you don't think the GS could make it over the frozen tundra to Barrow? :eek1

My apologies, JVB, if my post [above] seems "hard to read".

Just trying to "herd some cats" by rounding up a bunch of the arguments that have been running about in this thread. And then condensing them down into 20 lines or less . . . which does rather make for concentrated reading.

Probably BMW is changing the Final Drive to the "other side" in the WasserBoxer etc . . . as a way of demonstrating that they are washing their hands of the old FD design, and are are starting out on a new page.
It is something that could well work on potential buyers like me, who are considering getting back into the water [excuse pun] ~ but have been a bit reluctant to, in view of BMW's track record over the past decade.
"Surely this time [we will be saying] they will be avoiding the old mistakes. Look, it's all new, it's on the other side!"
As you know . . . Hope Springs Eternal.

As a consensus of 1, certainly I would be quite happy without the water-cooling and the humongous 130 hp . . . but as a whole package, the WasserBoxer may have a lot going for it (with the proposed wet clutch and new FD).
It will be interesting to learn the design details & changes made, especially in the new Final Drive.

Take a spare Crown Bearing and seal...

Ellipses are not your friend, friend.

I don't find this all that hard to read and in those twenty or so pages a lot of guys tried to say exactly what you said only using different words. Here is how I look at it.
1. Most bikes, especially the BMW's and other long distance bikes should have some kind of life expectancy value. That's Connies, FJR's, STxx's, Guzzi's, ST3/4 Duc's etc. I'm not sure even that can be established but just for argument sake lets "just say" for discussion purposes 100,000 miles is the figure to look at.
2. IMO, there needs to be a Mean Time Between Failures (time in hours on the engine or miles driven) determined. MTBF is determined by using the total number of bikes in the calculation.
3. MTBF could be matched against that 100,000 miles and it would be a good indicator if there is a problem or not.
4. A graph of number of failures versus miles and percentage of failer versus miles would also be very useful.

Until you can figure out something like the above which I am very sure NHSTA is doing as we ramble, all twenty pages are at best opinion and conjecture.

That's been my take on the durability issues related to the BMW R1200 line. It's my opinion that BMW may have gone too far with the "light makes right" mentality in the recent past.

I suspect the new Wasserboxer will become heavier out of necessity, among other things, to improve reliability.

Some modern sportbikes are now in the 450+ pound range yet are only tasked with excellent on-road performance. The GS, in particular, was tasked with good road performance AND reasonable off-road performance; all while having the strength to carry luggage and a passenger.

It's no wonder some components are built with a reduced safety factor. A good, strong useable motorcycle never seems to diverge much from 550 pounds these days. I say that with the opinion that ultralight sportbikes are a bit fragile for severe, aka "real world", use.

Recommended Service Interval,

we have it for oils, Throttle body sync. why not final bearings. Cat, Deere, Case, almost all heavy equipment has Recommended service intervals on almost all major components, including finals. If mine makes 50,000 without a whimper will probably pull it down, mic the parts and replace bearings and seals. Should get another 50K without having to think about them then.

Hello smoking gun.

Very sensible, especially seals, which should be an inspection item really. Life on that component will vary a lot depending on environment.

My apologies also to BobbySands (of post #313) for my previous excess of ellipses.

I was attempting to boil down & condense a wide range of related topics, all of which deserve some consideration and some proper position in the overall jigsaw pattern of this thread.

Such makes for rather concentrated reading (if we are to avoid an easy-flowing but three-page stylish essay). And so I hoped it would be acceptable to have a profuse scattering of dot-triplets, to give enough pauses to allow the reader [here and there] a moment of time to mentally grab a breath . . . rather like dolphins surfacing for air at gaps in the arctic ice-sheet.

* I shall avoid making any puns about Ellipses and Roundels.

* Now, as others have said, the Final Drive question comes down to a balance between "fitness for purpose" and what is fair as requisite routine components replacement.

319 posts in two weeks! WOW!

let me stew this down, let me know if I miss anything.

Some final drives have broken.

Some people think an excessive number have broken and some people don't.

NHTSA has been made aware that some final drives have broken.

Some people think that the NHTSA may do something about this.

Some people believe that if more people complain to the NHTSA, they will force BMW to do something.

Anything I missed?

Yes. BMW stonewalls, to their everlasting shame, which unintentionally gives more credibility to the doom and gloomers/conspiracy theorists.

I guess I've missed all the other company's that come right out and admit to a problem.
And yes, I'm sure there is one somewhere and it will be posted shortly.

Now this is an important and honest question. When people refer to "BMW", what are they referring to?

Are we saying an independent franchise stonewalled?

One of the guys or chicks that answer the customer relations phones?

BMW of north America?

BMW of some other country?

BMW Motorrad, AKA The motorcycle manufacture?

BMW Group, the parent company of motorcycle and car manufacturing?


I can't think of any major corporation that has a newspaper or weekly radio address that says "this is how we screwed the pooch this week".

In my experience, Germany did okay at informing BMW NA of ongoing issues, and NA did fantastic at informing dealerships.

Many MANY BMW dealerships have service managers that are idiots, intact it's the rule to which there are few exceptions. I'm not suggesting that they aren't nice people or un-friendly, just that they have no idea what management is, and spend more time talking then listening.

But...... If you read the service bulletins of which there are perhaps 5 or 6 a week, and occasionally glance around and see what the techs are working on, it is super easy for a service manager, service writer or shop foreman to know whats going on, what is failing and how often.

If you interview your customers well, take notes and jot down some numbers, you can even imperially prove when and why most issues are happening.

Heck, 3 out of 4 of BMW's field service engineers are very responsive and will just spell it out to you if you ask, mine always did.

BMW is not going to respond to every little post on a forum, they instead decimate info to their franchises, so, why not just ask at a franchise, and if they blow smoke, go to a different franchise.

Yes, many franchises are awful but BMW has very little control of their franchises, no manufacture does. BMW customers have all the control of franchises in the world. If yours won't answer questions, go to another.

Only an idiot doesn't know that things can break, the difference is that good things don't break unless you abuse them.

Good things tend to cost more than less good things, BMW products tend to cost more than other products; so when someone buys a BMW product and it breaks without being abused, they are rightfully pissed off.


Replay of a previous post.

Ya know, there is(used to be,anyway) a toll free number for BMW headquarters in New Jersy(USA) in your manual. I called it a LOT about a lemon RT I bought new in the 1990s. Since I no longer have the GS I'm not interested enough to call,but maybe you are. Try it. See what BMW says. Why not ?

Thank you. You just saved me valuable time! It is truly appreciated.

Now could you please go do the same thing in the "Hotrodding the GS" thread?

Freudian slip?

Agreed..........some dealers/reps suck........others are great and will got to bat for you----Gateway BMW is a great dealership IMHO (and I don't even own a BMW currently).

That said......BMW took care of the EWS ring and fuel controller issues, and at a minimum (just like Harley did with the early Twin Cam engines) fix all final drive problems that might impact an owner for 50,000 miles/5 years. The bike is touted as a tough, ride it anywhere/around the world, motorcycle...............and, a high percentage of the LTs and GS bikes ARE trouble free, but that does not matter if YOUR bike strands you in the middle of nowhere.

+ + more + even more = an infinite loop!

We AIN'T gonna solve this one! And for the guys who are saying BMW (whichever BMW you like) is going to "STONEWALL" NHTSA, why don't you ask Toyota how their tactics worked for them?