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Old 08-29-2014, 05:05 PM   #46
KendallT
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Location: Sand Springs (Tulsa), OK
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Originally Posted by cdwise View Post
Love the looks of your Stella.
Thank you ... Right now it's my only ride. Hopefully purchasing an ADV in the next 6 months or so. Just found this forum last week and was geeked to see so many scooter riders as well. The guys over at the Sportster forum were not fans of scooters ... AT ALL.
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Old 08-29-2014, 06:32 PM   #47
JerryH
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Originally Posted by redhandmoto View Post
Asymmetrical War at Genuine ... Gawdalmighty, Hostile takeovers ...

http://www.modernbuddy.com/forum/topic27667.html

Definitely not good, but not new either. Goes all the way back to 2011. When you start dealing with venture capitalists and holding companies, it usually means the end. If they decide to keep Genuine as a brand, they will probably start having scooters made in China. PGO may not be a good parts source, since every Genuine scooter they made was specifically designed for Genuine, and if they quit making them, they will also probably no longer make parts. The 2 stroke Stella will be the only one with parts availability, since they use vintage Vespa parts, available from many places.

I certainly hope none of this bad stuff happens, but without Philip McCaleb, it seems highly unlikely Genuine can continue to exist, at least the way it is now. He had a "genuine" interest in scooters, all these guys want is to make money.

I took all the badges off my Stella. Now I feel like putting them all back on.
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Old 08-29-2014, 07:29 PM   #48
Oldenuftaknowbetter
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I have to wonder how Scooterworks/Genuine could have been all that attractive as a target for the typical "buy it cheap and gut it" corporate takeover. Looks more to me like a sort of family squabble that got out of hand.

The charismatic founder of GM (William Crapo Durant) lost, regained, and lost control again all before the mid 1920s and that company stayed healthy for another 70-80 years.

According to their Facebook page, Genuine has added at least 3 new dealers just in this month of August and is very active still in ridealong events and sales promotions and has started offering an extra year (3 total) of warranty as a sales incentive. This doesn't sound like an outfit being gutted and cashed out, more like a company sincerely trying to increase market share.

I'd like to see a 250-400cc water cooled freeway cruiser from them with the same excellent quality my Buddy has, but afaik PGO doesn't build anything that big. Maybe CF Moto? They're a Mainland China mfg. whose products are starting to get some good reviews--maybe comparable to Taiwanese stuff or soon will be.

Oldenuftaknowbetter screwed with this post 08-29-2014 at 07:34 PM
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Old 08-29-2014, 07:33 PM   #49
YamaGeek
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Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
.....

I kind of see Vespa as the H-D of the scooter world, at least the older ones. You can get any part you want for an old Harley, but none of them are made by H-D. They are all aftermarket. I doubt that Piaggio still makes parts for 30+ year old scooters, yet they are plentiful, due to the aftermarket. I see a lot of vintage Vespas on Craigslist with LML engines. To me it's kind of like putting a Lifan engine in a Cub or Trail.


No it's not even closely analogous.

Putting a Lifan engine in a vintage Cub or Trail is putting a modern improved version of the old horizontal engine in the bike with better gearing and power. Lifan got the old tooling from Honda, that was so out of spec they had to invest over 5 million in improvements.

Hugemoth has over 50,000 on his Lifan 200 DS bike, that says quality to me, any of your little bikes got that amount of mileage?
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Old 08-29-2014, 08:17 PM   #50
JerryH
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Originally Posted by YamaGeek View Post


No it's not even closely analogous.

Putting a Lifan engine in a vintage Cub or Trail is putting a modern improved version of the old horizontal engine in the bike with better gearing and power. Lifan got the old tooling from Honda, that was so out of spec they had to invest over 5 million in improvements.

Hugemoth has over 50,000 on his Lifan 200 DS bike, that says quality to me, any of your little bikes got that amount of mileage?
I had exactly the same bike he has. I remember him from the American Lifan forum. My engine blew up at 3500 miles. It turned out mine was missing a part inside the engine that kept a nut from loosening, so it was a manufacturing defect that didn't affect all the engines. Other than the engine, the bike itself had a few issues, but all in all not bad for $1300 shipped.


The tooling Lifan got from Honda may have been worn out, but I doubt it was when Honda used it. I can't believe that a Honda engine would not be better than a Lifan engine.

Other than that bike, I have had experience with only one other Lifan engine. It was a Yamaha Virago 250 v-twin clone. It wasn't mine. I was rebuilding the top end, because it was burning oil, and compression was a bit low. I got all the parts and tore into it. When putting it back together, I broke one of the rings. I decided to try a Yamaha ring, as they were supposed to be the same engine. Way different. The Yamaha ring was much thicker, and would not fit in the groove in the Lifan piston. It was thicker both ways, top to bottom, and inside to outside. In general a much better made part. Was probably made out of better metal as well.


So while the Lifan engine looked the same, it was inferior in spec and build quality. The LML motors have one major weak point. The crank. I got that not only from the Modern Buddy and former Stellaspeed forums, but from a local vintage Vespa shop that is familiar with LML parts. It would be fairly easy, though expensive, to build a bulletproof LML motor out of high dollar aftermarket parts. Though I guess it wouldn't really be an LML motor anymore. So far mine has made it a hair past 12,000 miles. It has not been ridden hard. I ride it more like a 50cc scooter, with a top speed of about 45 mph. That seems to make a huge difference in the reliability of both Indian and Chinese made engines.
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Old 08-29-2014, 09:54 PM   #51
YamaGeek
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Lifan's engines run entirely modern pistons with thin compression and oil control rings, thinner cross section doesn't mean worse. I'm surprised you thought the Yamaha rings would work in that V-twin.

Lifan's engines are 12 volt with a modern shunt style working regulator that keeps the battery fully charged, not boiled dry. My Yamaha's battery has lasted since 2007, just added water as needed.

Their cams run on ball bearings, not the head's aluminum machined castings like my SL-90 that ate it's head cam bearings when the oil pressure got low, ( needed a new head..) the cam tensioners are oil damped and simpler than the old Hondas. Lifans use a very reliable CDI system that is either DC or AC powered and can be switched back and forth. no points, condensor and the stator and coils fit all of the horizontal engines. Multiple types and sizes of carburetors are very easily obtainable for most Lifan small moto engines.

Nope I'm not seeing the downside of a currently developed, and modernized version of the old Honda horizontal single that I can still easily get parts for.
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